Gun Control

It's In The Blood.:

Kurtni:

Defending yourself is purely to hurt someone. Clearly, the hurting people part isn't what you're really against.

On another note, I don't see how anyone can say they would not defend during a violent attack. You can't say how your body would react when an adrenaline rush hits you. You may in principle be against violent defense, but in the heat of the moment when it's life or death, I have a feeling those principles would go by the wayside. Our desire for self-preservation is too strong.

But humans don't exist purely to perform violence :)

Guns do.

You could use a cheese grater to do awful things to a person I'm sure. But they're also for grating cheese. Hammers are for hammering things, but can also be used to kill. Hypodermic syringes can cure or kill, and are used for both.

Guns? Um... they just kill. Unless Homer Simpson is right and we can use them to turn the TV on?

I'm not anti-violence, and I never said I was. I'm anti-gun.

What if other person has a gun and you have a cheese grater? I'm sure you'd have more chance to stay alive if you had gun yourself. Self defense I'm talking about.

What if they have a hand pistol and you have an AK47?

But that logic means everyone should own a gun because of assumptions.

It just doesn't work. By that logic, America should be one of the safest places in the world and it ain't.

The Doctor.:

What if they have a hand pistol and you have an AK47?

But that logic means everyone should own a gun because of assumptions.

It just doesn't work. By that logic, America should be one of the safest places in the world and it ain't.

Yes, I know. But some people will always carry guns. Some people live in a safe community, some not. It's disturbing that you can't walk around feeling safe.

Josipa:

Yes, I know. But some people will always carry guns. Some people live in a safe community, some not. It's disturbing that you can't walk around feeling safe.

To what extent is 'safe' just a state of mind, though?
Some people will be afraid without reason. There's a park in Edinburgh that everybody always says 'don't ever go near there at night!!1' but I've been through it at midnight on my own and I didn't feel unsafe. Michael Moore's principle idea in his documentary Bowling for Columbine is that people - for whatever reason - are more afraid in America. Nobody should take what Michael Moore says for truth at all, but it's worth bearing in mind. If Britain has far higher crime rates than America and I feel safe, as a young woman, unarmed, walking around in a capital city on my own at night, then why do grown men in the - presumably safer - states of America feel the need to carry a gun to be safe?

That is what doesn't add up for me. Surely I should have more to fear if I come from this more violent society. But I don't feel afraid. I don't know why, either.

elizabeth gaskell:

Josipa:

Yes, I know. But some people will always carry guns. Some people live in a safe community, some not. It's disturbing that you can't walk around feeling safe.

To what extent is 'safe' just a state of mind, though?
Some people will be afraid without reason. There's a park in Edinburgh that everybody always says 'don't ever go near there at night!!1' but I've been through it at midnight on my own and I didn't feel unsafe. Michael Moore's principle idea in his documentary Bowling for Columbine is that people - for whatever reason - are more afraid in America. Nobody should take what Michael Moore says for truth at all, but it's worth bearing in mind. If Britain has far higher crime rates than America and I feel safe, as a young woman, unarmed, walking around in a capital city on my own at night, then why do grown men in the - presumably safer - states of America feel the need to carry a gun to be safe?

That is what doesn't add up for me. Surely I should have more to fear if I come from this more violent society. But I don't feel afraid. I don't know why, either.

I don't feel afraid either. I wasn't talking from my personal experience, I was more referring to those states with high crime rates. I always bear in my mind that some lunatic might pass by me holding a gun but I believe that thinking about it all the time cannot bring any good. You can become that person that carries a gun. Yes, people who come from more violent society don't feel as safe as you and me (eventhough Britain has a high crime rate).

I just have a question about the crime rate in Britain. Are the crimes in Britain more violent? Like armed robbery, or homicide, etc etc, than that in America? Or am I asking a really stupid question?

Josipa:

What if other person has a gun and you have a cheese grater? I'm sure you'd have more chance to stay alive if you had gun yourself. Self defense I'm talking about.

I wouldn't have a gun. I never want to own one. If someone broke into my house with a gun, I would leave the cheese grater alone and give them whatever the hell they wanted. And if they wanted to shoot me, I suppose they would. And I would die. I wouldn't like it, and I wouldn't think that I was proving some higher point by dying, but I would. Because you can't fight someone with a gun with a cheese grater, or clever words. But I would never have a gun because they frighten me and disgust me. And because people are shot with their own guns. And because people shoot themselves with their own guns.

And chances are, if I'd had a gun I'd be dead anyway. Because they'd probably be much, much more willing to use their gun than I was to use mine.

Sardonic Grin:

I just have a question about the crime rate in Britain. Are the crimes in Britain more violent? Like armed robbery, or homicide, etc etc, than that in America? Or am I asking a really stupid question?

I don't think it's a stupid question.
In Britain, talking about 'crime' and 'violent crime' are two different things (at least, that's how the government measure it). We have one of the highest rates of violent crime within the EU (but not the highest). A fairly good summary can be found here in comparing us to other EU states so if you know what the American statistics are it should be possible to make a comparison.

It's In The Blood.:

I wouldn't have a gun. I never want to own one. If someone broke into my house with a gun, I would leave the cheese grater alone and give them whatever the hell they wanted. And if they wanted to shoot me, I suppose they would. And I would die. I wouldn't like it, and I wouldn't think that I was proving some higher point by dying, but I would. Because you can't fight someone with a gun with a cheese grater, or clever words. But I would never have a gun because they frighten me and disgust me. And because people are shot with their own guns. And because people shoot themselves with their own guns.

And chances are, if I'd had a gun I'd be dead anyway. Because they'd probably be much, much more willing to use their gun than I was to use mine.

I'm curious, if in a situation, where you're pretty much certain that you will be shot, you could magically spawn a gun in your hand to more effectively defend yourself, would you you know use the gun shoot the guy and feel better for having the option? For not being dead and all?

^ That depends. If there was someone else in danger, I probably would. But even in that terrified moment I think I would shoot the person in the leg (if I could aim the gun, that is, which is doubtful). The idea of killing someone sickens me. The idea of defending myself or acting in the defense of other people sickens me less.

For instance, if I were at work and someone came into the hall and started shooting the kids and a gun appeared in my hand, I'd fire it. But I have no idea how to use a gun beyond point and pull, and I gather that there's a little more to it than that, so I'd probably be a little screwed.

If I had a gun but was not protecting anyone, I don't think I'd fire it. I think I'd be too frightened. In the past when I've been in situations where I had to either verbally or physically defend myself, I haven't done so unless there were other people there to protect.

I'd rather not kill someone, but I believe I would if I had to protect someone else.

And that explains quite nicely why I hate guns :)

Xsoteria:

I'm curious, if in a situation, where you're pretty much certain that you will be shot, you could magically spawn a gun in your hand to more effectively defend yourself, would you you know use the gun shoot the guy and feel better for having the option? For not being dead and all?

No.

I don't think I could handle doing that to someone. I have guilt issues - I feel guilty for not getting up and letting old ladies sit down. Hell, I still feel guilty over my Grandmother's death even though I know it wasn't my fault.

I think the guilt would kill me. In that situation, I'd rather be shot and be in some physical pain and either going to hospital or a mortuary than go through guilt trips.

I don't like guns. I am terrified of them.

But I don't think they should be outlawed.

I mean, doing that alone isn't going to stop criminals from getting them. Most drugs are illegal, but people still get them. The only thing taking them away would do is prevent people like you and me from having them to protect ourselves.

I don't have a gun, but my parents have two. They have been in a suitcase with a combination lock on it for as long as I can remember. They never touch the things, but it's a comfort to know that if someone broke in, we would have those if we needed them.

I mean think of it: a man breaks into your house with a gun that he bought illegally. The only thing you can find to defend yourself is what? A kitchen knife? What's that going to help when he's got a gun in your face?

Things like this happen anyway, but it would a lot more if guns were illegal. Making something against the law doesn't prevent bad things from occurring.

No matter if the government banned any and all guns, criminals would still get them. It would just prevent innocent people from protecting themselves if they were in need.

I know I went off and rambled about stuff that had already been said, but it's just something that bothers me about the anti-gun argument.

^Being anti-gun doesn't mean you think they should be illegal, necessarily. You could call me anti-gun, but only in certain contexts. I don't believe people should be allowed to own or carry guns at all times purely for self defense (you can't do that where I come from anyway), but I don't believe they should be outlawed.

Careless Whisper.:

I don't like guns. I am terrified of them.

But I don't think they should be outlawed.

I mean, doing that alone isn't going to stop criminals from getting them. Most drugs are illegal, but people still get them. The only thing taking them away would do is prevent people like you and me from having them to protect ourselves.

I don't have a gun, but my parents have two. They have been in a suitcase with a combination lock on it for as long as I can remember. They never touch the things, but it's a comfort to know that if someone broke in, we would have those if we needed them.

I mean think of it: a man breaks into your house with a gun that he bought illegally. The only thing you can find to defend yourself is what? A kitchen knife? What's that going to help when he's got a gun in your face?

Things like this happen anyway, but it would a lot more if guns were illegal. Making something against the law doesn't prevent bad things from occurring.

No matter if the government banned any and all guns, criminals would still get them. It would just prevent innocent people from protecting themselves if they were in need.

I know I went off and rambled about stuff that had already been said, but it's just something that bothers me about the anti-gun argument.

I think either I wasn't clear enough (likely) or you missed the point (less likely).

I don't think guns should be outlawed. I don't think anyone who is anti-gun (and has half a brain) thinks that - I mean, it certainly didn't work for drugs, did it? I think they shouldn't exist. Full stop. But while they exist, then I certainly don't think we should take them out of the hands of the people who try to defend us.

I am slightly concerned though that we may one day obliterate all guns and then be annihilated by aliens.

These things worry me :(

^Ah but then my superior skill with the sword will finally come to be recognised! Do not worry, you are safe.

Careless Whisper.:

I mean, doing that alone isn't going to stop criminals from getting them. Most drugs are illegal, but people still get them.

Sure. But then why is this considered such a valid and sensible (and indeed the only logical) argument when it comes to gun ownership, whereas opinions (like my own) which are in favour of the total legalisation of all drugs get treated like a slightly mad suggestion?

I think if the logic works for one thing (guns) it has to work for the whole (everything - including guns and drugs and everything in-between). In actual fact there's a slightly better argument for legalising drugs which all gets a bit paradoxical when you start talking trying to draw a parallel with guns.

Xsoteria:

^Ah but then my superior skill with the sword will finally come to be recognised! Do not worry, you are safe.

Well, that's put my mind at rest.

Who needs a gun to save anything?

All you really need is a screwdriver, some charm, a kettle and a piece of string.

Oh and a decorative vegetable.

And oi, not all aliens have cultures of invasion like SOME species I could talk about (Yes, that's you humans!)

Guns are pointless, useless abominations of things. Like I've said before, they are not required at all. You can protect yourself without them and you can destory millions of things without a gun. So, to all intensive purposes, they are not required under any logic.

Criminals are always going to find ways to get guns, so I think civilians should be able to have them for protection.

Cereal Killer:

Criminals are always going to find ways to get guns, so I think civilians should be able to have them for protection.

You are much more likely to be killed if you yourself own a gun.