Should It Be Legal to Pierce Your Infant Child's Ears?

@ Ayana Sioux
More comparable than hair brushing. It's something involving the individual's body that they should have control over. And getting a piercing can cause permanent damage, as well as leave scars which are permanent.

@ dru will wait.
Perhaps, but it's barely noticeable.

No, absolutely not.
How is sticking a needle into a baby's ear different from mutilation?
It's an unnecessary procedure that cannot be consented to, so it shouldn't be legal.

@ Ayana Sioux
Permanent damage is barely noticeable?

@ dru will wait.
Yes because one, it's not always permanent and two, it's a small hole in the ear.

@ Ayana Sioux
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying when I say 'permanent damage'. I'm referring to the possible side effects. Infection, either from the piercing or unsafe conditions. The ear is too small and the earring can easily be placed too close to the edge. Choking hazards, which can lead to death. Allergic reactions, or an embedded earring.

@ dru will wait.
I've talked about this earlier in the debate. Firstly, this is about my child because that's all that really matters and because I know how my body is, the possibility that my child will get an infection is low. The people who pierce the child's ear usually puts a dot on the ear first before piercing to be sure that it will be even and the pierce is in a place where the mother likes it. Also, piercing earrings have a safety backing on them that make it really hard for someone to take off, even for an adult. So I doubt a child will have the strength to pull the backing off. And lastly, I don't think someone would be too allergic to gold.

You're basing this too much off of an "if" factor with little to no numbers that will make the piercing seem like a huge risk.

@ Ayana Sioux

Sorry to jump in, but you just seem to be ignoring any statistic that you don't like? Like someone said further back in the thread 20% of ear piercings (I think it was specific to children, but I'm not sure) will have some degree of complications, and you said that that number was too insignificant for you to care? 20% is one in five. It's hardly unreasonable to assume that one of those could be your kid.

My one year old niece ripped her earrings out after having a severe infection, my cousin required surgery to unembed her earrings. The problem with the safety backs you keep bringing up, is that even though they can't be taken off to choke on, they are very easy to become embedded in the skin, especially when the piercing swells, either in the normal way or because it's infected otherwise.

And "to prevent them from fearing needles in the future" is not a good enough reason to violate the principles of consent. Sorry, if they're that scared of needles, they'll have to live without piercings, tough titties.

@ marina.
Preventing fear of needles wouldn't work anyway. They are plenty of adults who are victims of infant ear piercing and are still scared of needles. They don't remember, so why would it make them not afraid?

@ the drupocalypse.

I know, right? I think as well people think it'll just get it over and done with so they won't have to get the piercing in the future when the kid can understand that it'll hurt? It seems to be labouring under the pretence that at some point sooner or later you have to have your ears pierced, when you really don't.

I just don't understand why people think the ears of babies are okay to wound for cosmetic reasons before they can even say "mama" or "dada". Like, what?

@ marina.
You know, I'm not your niece. Different people react differently to different things. In my family, pierces don't cause complications. The issue with what I was saying is that making it illegal for someone to pierce their child's isn't fair to those who don't. There are many things that parents do that aren't good for their kids that will cause complications later on in their life. But you can't just sit there and make everything illegal to prevent something like that. As a parent, you're supposed to be responsible for your child no matter what you or they do. But I don't think it's right to penalized people as a whole for an issue that the parents might be responsible for, or for something that happens to certain people.

@ the drupocalypse.
The argument wasn't that it wouldn't make them afraid.

@ Ayana Sioux
Your child's genetics will not be identical to yours; even the expression of your genetic material won't be identical. It's medically unsubstantiated to think your child will have all the same experiences as you. Additionally, things like hepatitis A and infections affect everyone. Just because you got lucky doesn't mean you'll be passing on some sort of unwavering immunity to illness.

@ Ayana Sioux

Yes, different people do react differently to different things. You're making my point for me. Your child will not necessarily have the same good experience with infant ear piercing that you did.

Aside from it being all sorts of weird concerning bodily autonomy, increasing a child's risk of harm for any non-necessary reason just seems stupid and irresponsible to me.

I don't think it's fair to mutilate a non-consenting child for cosmetic reasons. Why do you think it's okay to poke holes through people's ears, but not any other body part? 'Social acceptability' isn't going to wash as a reason either, since it's socially acceptable to mutilate your daughter's genitals in parts of Africa, and I think it's fair to assume we both think that's wrong.

Ayana Sioux:

@ marina.
In my family, pierces don't cause complications.

That's a little awkward to say. If no one in my family has had cancer that doesn't mean it'll be realistic for me to say "oh in my family, we don't get cancer". You can't know for a fact that none of your children will have complications, and it's rather awkward that you seem to think you can somehow know that.

To be honest, I'm pretty tired of this whole thing. You all's won't phase my decision. I won't pierce my child's ears as an infant (as a said before) but I'm not going to wait too long. I think the issues develop more with age.

@ Ayana Sioux
You kind of think whatever you need to in order to justify your thought. You just make up facts instead of listening to the real ones. But ignorance is a right, I suppose.

@ Ayana Sioux
No one is trying to force you to change your mind. This is a discussion forum, and we're discussing. And the truth is that you're not really listening to what anyone says or even taking anything into consideration but instead opt for creating your own facts.

the drupocalypse.:

But ignorance is a right, I suppose.

That was really unnecessary.

bella heart shawnee:

@ Ayana Sioux
No one is trying to force you to change your mind. This is a discussion forum, and we're discussing. And the truth is that you're not really listening to what anyone says or even taking anything into consideration but instead opt for creating your own facts.

I'm sure Ayana knows how the discussion forums work and critiquing her personally isn't ok.

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If either of you don't want to discuss with someone anymore, you quit replying, not make off-topic posts about how they're ignorant and don't know how the discussion forums work.

@ Kurtni
I responded directly to her "You all's won't phase my decision", and was not insinuating that she was being ignorant or didn't know how a discussion forum worked. I simply clarified that we are not trying to force her to change her opinion!