Should It Be Legal to Pierce Your Infant Child's Ears?

Xsoteria:

^Mine wasn't an ear piercing though. Which is kind of my point.

I've just read through your posts and I couldn't find where you specified that.
I think there's a significant difference between a discreet piercing in your ear and piercing your child's lip or something, though.

Xsoteria:

Wouldn't the obvious choice here be then to actually wait for your kid to grow up to the magical year 18, and decide for itself whether or not he/she wants piercings or other bodily ornaments?

In some states you don't have to be eighteen. My friend got a tattoo at sixteen 'cause her mom signed a form.

^Yeah that seems like a viable option as well.

sunflowers.:

I've just read through your posts and I couldn't find where you specified that.
I think there's a significant difference between a discreet piercing in your ear and piercing your child's lip or something, though.

No you misunderstood. The point was that the only difference between facial/body piercings and ear piercings is the location. For one you have to be able to make an informed decision (or have a parent sign you a permission) and for the other you don't.

There's a massive difference between body and ear piercings. For a start, the aftercare is vastly more intense/difficult with some body piercings. The nose, for example, is notoriously hard to heal and can be problematic/painful for years after the initial piercing. There's also a huge cultural difference. In most cultures, ear piercings are completely by-the-by, to the point where you don't even register if people have them. Body/facial piercings are a lot less common and can provoke mixed reactions, including preventing the person from being able to get some jobs.

The Rumor:

Body/facial piercings are a lot less common and can provoke mixed reactions, including preventing the person from being able to get some jobs.

Yeah, but like everyone seems to point out with earrings, "you can just take them out later".

dru's faking it.:

Yeah, but like everyone seems to point out with earrings, "you can just take them out later".

Having a small mark in your ear is far less noticeable than having one on your nose or cheek, in the same way that a small tattoo on your foot or something is far more discreet than one on arm or your neck.

sunflowers.:

Having a small mark in your ear is far less noticeable than having one on your nose or cheek, in the same way that a small tattoo on your foot or something is far more discreet than one on arm or your neck.

I have a discreet tattoo on my neck, but that's beyond the point. (It's also easy for me to hide my wrist tattoos.)

What about a mark on your lip? I used to have my lip pierced and no longer do. There's a mark, but it's hidden underneath the curve of my lip, so you pretty much have to have me point it out in order to see it. Tongue piercings, also, do not leave visible marks. Belly button rings wouldn't have a mark that would be visible in a job setting unless you work in a job where you show your stomach and, in that case, most people probably wouldn't care. Eyebrow ring marks would also be pretty easy to hide in your eyebrows.

dru's faking it.:

I have a discreet tattoo on my neck, but that's beyond the point. (It's also easy for me to hide my wrist tattoos.)

What about a mark on your lip? I used to have my lip pierced and no longer do. There's a mark, but it's hidden underneath the curve of my lip, so you pretty much have to have me point it out in order to see it. Tongue piercings, also, do not leave visible marks. Belly button rings wouldn't have a mark that would be visible in a job setting unless you work in a job where you show your stomach and, in that case, most people probably wouldn't care. Eyebrow ring marks would also be pretty easy to hide in your eyebrows.

I'm not acting like the positioning and how discreet it is is the only issue with piercing a child in other places.
Like The Rumor said, some are harder to care for, some facial piercings have a much greater chance of infection and the pain is much worse.

My ear piercing was less painful than an injection. My belly button piercing was far more painful and hurt for a week.

With regards to body piercings on children, a lot of them would be completely ill-advised also because of the child's growing. Most surface piercings (particularly eyebrow and belly button) would be in completely the wrong place and/or split as the child grew. A belly button piercing on a pre-pubescent girl would almost certainly reject once her body started to change. I imagine lip piercings might also be an issue as they grow. Your ear lobes don't change that much as you grow, everything else does.

sunflowers.:

My ear piercing was less painful than an injection. My belly button piercing was far more painful and hurt for a week.

Whereas my lip ring hut as much as an ear piercing and hurt for about ten minutes, then was done.

dru's faking it.:

Whereas my lip ring hut as much as an ear piercing and hurt for about ten minutes, then was done.

My only point there was that some piercings hurt more than others.

sunflowers.:

My only point there was that some piercings hurt more than others.

But it varies by person so you can't say all facial piercings hurt more than ear piercings because it's not always true.

When my mother was my age, she worked at Wal-Mart in the jewelry department. She wouldn't pierce a child under the age of two. That was just her personal preference and opinion. I don't think it hurts anything, and it is cute on some children. Besides, the child could always take the piercing/s out if they didnt want them at a later age. It's as simple as that. But facial piercings like lip, nose, etc? No. I don't believe you should be allowed to do that.

mona lisa.:

When my mother was my age, she worked at Wal-Mart in the jewelry department. She wouldn't pierce a child under the age of two. That was just her personal preference and opinion. I don't think it hurts anything, and it is cute on some children. Besides, the child could always take the piercing/s out if they didnt want them at a later age. It's as simple as that. But facial piercings like lip, nose, etc? No. I don't believe you should be allowed to do that.

Yes, and taking the piercings out could still leave a mark. Something being "cute" is not always a good reason to do it.

Additionally, why not facial piercings? You can just take those out later which is your suggestion for ear piercings.

mona lisa.:

When my mother was my age, she worked at Wal-Mart in the jewelry department. She wouldn't pierce a child under the age of two. That was just her personal preference and opinion. I don't think it hurts anything, and it is cute on some children. Besides, the child could always take the piercing/s out if they didnt want them at a later age. It's as simple as that. But facial piercings like lip, nose, etc? No. I don't believe you should be allowed to do that.

Was she allowed to deny someone of service? I didn't think you could do that just because you didn't agree with it.

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Yes, I think it remain legal to pierce your infant's ears. I don't see any harm in it, at all. Later, if a child doesn't want to wear them, they can take them off. As far as infections, no matter what age you get a piercing, there's a possibility of it getting infected. My mom had my ears pierced when I was about six months, I'm glad she did, that way I didn't have to get it when I was older. I wouldn't have been mad either if I didn't end up wanting them, I would have just taken them off, no big deal, to me.

Jewel Nicole:

Was she allowed to deny someone of service? I didn't think you could do that just because you didn't agree with it.

I wouldn't be surprised if she could. At Walgreens we could refuse to print photographs or refuse to give them to the individual if we disagreed/didn't like the content of them.

The Rumor:

There's a massive difference between body and ear piercings. For a start, the aftercare is vastly more intense/difficult with some body piercings. The nose, for example, is notoriously hard to heal and can be problematic/painful for years after the initial piercing. There's also a huge cultural difference. In most cultures, ear piercings are completely by-the-by, to the point where you don't even register if people have them. Body/facial piercings are a lot less common and can provoke mixed reactions, including preventing the person from being able to get some jobs.

Ah yes. We get to the final point. It's not so much that it's about the child's body or it's ability to make informed decision. Not even about the pain. You think that there is no other place on the body where you could jam a needle and have it pass relatively as safe as through the ear? Or maybe it's a lot more discreet if we pierce its ear than somewhere on the face? Fine, pierce your kid's butthole or something, that's pretty discreet, no one's gonna look for it there on the job interview (I hope).

It's not about any of those things really. It's because earrings are more socially acceptable, somewhere they are tradition so on and so forth. And things that are socially acceptable aren't things that are deeply firmed in objectivity or rationality, things that we should strive to form laws around - they are based on habit and things we're used to. Some ancient dudes, a whole lot of years ago decided something's a ok based on some ridiculous notion that would today, get them arrested faster than a horny sociopath in a trench coat taking a stroll through the kindergarten. And we got used to it, so that's fine today, even though it collides with some principles and rights we have today, ones that are formed indiscriminately, rationally and objectively (or at least that was the idea behind making them).

If we suddenly got conquered by the dormant Martian civilisation and they ruled the world for say, 500 years, during which time they make it a legal obligation to chop off your and your offspring's butt cheeks so you could sit in their specially designed Martian slave chairs, what would we do later, when the Invaders die after listening to too much Prodigy and get beaten by the heroic microorganisms? Chances are, we'd keep lopping off our progeny's rear ends on the habitual basis. Because after 500 years or more of tradition, having the entirety of your arse attached would probably be very much out of the ordinary, possibly obscene or highly socially unacceptable. So we'd keep mangling the future generations even though it would be conflicting with the principles of our society.

And that's the only problem I have with this whole thing. Our law making parameters are not exactly in place. We are still very likely to base a law on social acceptability and tradition, instead of rationality and attempt at justice.

(and before someone jumps at me for making invalid examples and comparisons, don't. The point was to exaggerate a little in order to accentuate the violation of a principle, rather than just show how earrings on kids should be illegal. They shouldn't be. Or they should be. I don't care. But it's contradictory to some of our other laws and principles, is all I'm trying to say)

A few question to those who believe that piercing infants' ears should be illegal.

What, in your opinion, should a law make the appropriate age for piercing? (I'm assuming this has already been covered, but I couldn't find it in my quick sweep of the thread)

How do you judge a parent that is usually very caring and good to their children if they decide to have their child's ear pierced? Do you feel it takes away from what a good parent they usually are and would you look down on them for making that decision?

If a law concerning this manner were to be passed, should it be a state law that the public can vote on or should it be a national law?

Do you think it is appropriate to allow the government to make a law that governs something that is considered truly important in some peoples' cultures?

Heavy Breeding:

What, in your opinion, should a law make the appropriate age for piercing? (I'm assuming this has already been covered, but I couldn't find it in my quick sweep of the thread)

I think the child should have to be able to speak and articulate that they want it. That's all.

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How do you judge a parent that is usually very caring and good to their children if they decide to have their child's ear pierced? Do you feel it takes away from what a good parent they usually are and would you look down on them for making that decision?

I would never say that a parent is a bad parent because they pierce an infant's ears. I don't agree with it and think it's wrong.

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Do you think it is appropriate to allow the government to make a law that governs something that is considered truly important in some peoples' cultures?

I've heard that having ears pierced young is a cultural thing, but does really waiting until your kid say 'yes' completely destroy your cultural background?

faith in dru.:

I've heard that having ears pierced young is a cultural thing, but does really waiting until your kid say 'yes' completely destroy your cultural background?

And what exactly makes it a "cultural thing"? I don't quite understand that argument...