Racism

^I'm sorry, but how is any of that based/ driven on/ by hate? I mean, lies are lies, that's just what it is. And I'm not the one to get upset enough to report anyone for "harassment". Obviously it's not harassment if I asked you to do it. Besides, it's just a website. None of you can bother me enough to want to report you. All I have to do is walk away from the computer.

And honestly, I don't see why you're complaining because the biased is more for white people, and against black people anyway. I think to kill that little problem, you have to address the bigger problem first. Look at it this way, if one thousand people are drowning, versus one person dying from fire and you can only address one while the other is sacrificed, who do you address?

ayanasioux:

And honestly, I don't see why you're complaining because the biased is more for white people, and against black people anyway. I think to kill that little problem, you have to address the bigger problem first. Look at it this way, if one thousand people are drowning, versus one person dying from fire and you can only address one while the other is sacrificed, who do you address?

I'm complaining because saying one type of racism is bad, but saying another kind of racism is okay, because the first type is more prolific, is not okay. All racism is bad. All racism needs to be fixed. That's why I'm frustrated, because I have heard so many instances where people say there's no such thing as racism towards white people, or that it's "reverse" racism when it's toward white people - which is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

^ No one said it's okay. But the squeakiest door gets the WD-40 first. And there's a good reason why a lot of people believe there is no such thing as racism towards whites, it's because it's rare, and not emphasized because it lacks (in most cases) true severity.

ayanasioux:

And there's a good reason why a lot of people believe there is no such thing as racism towards whites, it's because it's rare, and not emphasized because it lacks (in most cases) true severity.

On what grounds can you claim that it's rare and/or lacking in severity?

ayanasioux:

^ No one said it's okay. But the squeakiest door gets the WD-40 first. And there's a good reason why a lot of people believe there is no such thing as racism towards whites, it's because it's rare, and not emphasized because it lacks (in most cases) true severity.

If you acknowledge it occurs rarely, you'd be obviously contradicting yourself to say it doesn't exist.

I think this is more a matter of semantics; I draw a line between racism and discrimination. There are plenty of people who hold racist ideas about white people, but white people are not systematically discriminated against the way people of color are because non-white people typically don't have the power or positions of authority to discriminate.

I'm not contradicting myself. I said "why A LOT OF PEOPLE think it doesn't exist". I know it exists.

@Alex: I have a better question. How often do you see acts of racism towards whites?

white people run this town

ayanasioux:

I'm not contradicting myself. I said "why A LOT OF PEOPLE think it doesn't exist". I know it exists.

@Alex: I have a better question. How often do you see acts of racism towards whites?

Well I haven't ever really seen any acts of racism towards anyone with my own eyes, but I do know of the "gaijin" trend in Japan, in which people mockingly and stereotypically dress up as a Caucasian person. (Of course this might not sound all that racist, but imagine if it were to be turned on its head. Would it be considered racist then? Probably.)

Then closer to home, there are plenty of areas in the big cities with a large black population, even some schools, where "gang culture" is also pretty abundant, and white people can be bullied/victimised just out of the fact that they're a minority.

The trouble is, many people seem to think that racism against white people is practically non-existent (some even reckon it's impossible) just because of the "history", and the idea that white people haven't been oppressed to the extent of other races. This doesn't change the fact, though, that racism is racism, no matter what race it's aimed at. If it's a negative remark/ideology/stereotype based purely on a person's racial background, it's racism. Plus, there's no reason to think that racism towards white people is less prevalent just because we don't hear about it all that often.

Alex; schmetterling!:

Well I haven't ever really seen any acts of racism towards anyone with my own eyes, but I do know of the "gaijin" trend in Japan, in which people mockingly and stereotypically dress up as a Caucasian person. (Of course this might not sound all that racist, but imagine if it were to be turned on its head. Would it be considered racist then? Probably.)

Then closer to home, there are plenty of areas in the big cities with a large black population, even some schools, where "gang culture" is also pretty abundant, and white people can be bullied/victimised just out of the fact that they're a minority.

The trouble is, many people seem to think that racism against white people is practically non-existent (some even reckon it's impossible) just because of the "history", and the idea that white people haven't been oppressed to the extent of other races. This doesn't change the fact, though, that racism is racism, no matter what race it's aimed at. If it's a negative remark/ideology/stereotype based purely on a person's racial background, it's racism. Plus, there's no reason to think that racism towards white people is less prevalent just because we don't hear about it all that often.

The problem with talking about racism against white people is precisely that we hear about it all the time because it's used to discriminate against POC so much - don't we always hear about how dangerous gangs of POC are? or about how illegal immigration fosters crime? or about how people of Middle Eastern descent are most likely to be terrorists? Convincing people that POC are not only extremely dangerous and prone to violence but also hateful towards innocent and helpless white people is white supremacy 101 - it's the kind of ideology that both encouraged and excused things like lynchings and segregation laws.

^ Well I don't know about you, but I always hear about how dangerous gangs of youths in general are, no mention of race. Obviously there are plenty of gangs of white people, but I didn't mention them because they weren't part of my point.

I'm not sure why you brought up the idea of convincing people that non-white people are dangerous or violent to white people, because I wasn't even insinuating that by a long shot. I asked ayanasioux why she thought that racism towards white people was so thin on the ground, she responded by asking about acts of racism towards white people, and I gave her examples.

Alex; schmetterling!:

Well I haven't ever really seen any acts of racism towards anyone with my own eyes, but I do know of the "gaijin" trend in Japan, in which people mockingly and stereotypically dress up as a Caucasian person. (Of course this might not sound all that racist, but imagine if it were to be turned on its head. Would it be considered racist then? Probably.)

I'm sorry, but the Japanese have a history of discriminating against races beyond caucasian.

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Then closer to home, there are plenty of areas in the big cities with a large black population, even some schools, where "gang culture" is also pretty abundant, and white people can be bullied/victimised just out of the fact that they're a minority.

And where have you heard of such cases because I've always been to schools like this and I hear nothing of white kids being bullied? Honestly, from what I've witnessed, most black people don't bully. We just talk a lot of shit and fight. But if we lose the fight or win, it's usually settled then. There's no bullying or none of that nonsense.

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The trouble is, many people seem to think that racism against white people is practically non-existent (some even reckon it's impossible) just because of the "history", and the idea that white people haven't been oppressed to the extent of other races. This doesn't change the fact, though, that racism is racism, no matter what race it's aimed at. If it's a negative remark/ideology/stereotype based purely on a person's racial background, it's racism. Plus, there's no reason to think that racism towards white people is less prevalent just because we don't hear about it all that often.

But in your fashion magazines, on your tv's, on the ads you see, which culture is portrayed the most? What is considered beautiful or a sign of wealth in many societies? Is it a charred black, dark eyes, full lipped, wide nose, kinky head person? Or is that what's considered ugly in many societies of the world (can't speak for Africa though. Don't always know what they think there)? What is portrayed as beautiful in this world? If beauty is so biased in the world, who has room for racism towards the "beautiful" when they're too busy pitying themselves for not being like them? Who's influence is stronger?

You tell me yourself, what do you think is beautiful (or what do you consider more attractive) and what is portrayed as beautiful in your society? Do you see why I can be bitter at times? If someone were to tell you your straight hair isn't beautiful, your light skin is ugly, your thin nose is disgusting, how would you feel? If someone told you that your features were ugly, how would you feel? I don't think I'm ugly, but I have brown skin, I have dark eyes, I have full lips, I have a round nose, I have kinky hair.

And people say America has hardly any European influence. I don't know what to think of that.

ayanasioux:

I'm sorry, but the Japanese have a history of discriminating against races beyond caucasian.

So? That doesn't mean that racism against Caucasians is any less common, which is what we were talking about, not who the Japanese discriminate against.

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And where have you heard of such cases because I've always been to schools like this and I hear nothing of white kids being bullied?

Here in the UK.

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Honestly, from what I've witnessed, most black people don't bully. We just talk a lot of shit and fight.

Uh, what? You don't think talking shit to someone and being violent towards them is bullying?

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But in your fashion magazines, on your tv's, on the ads you see, which culture is portrayed the most?

British culture. As for race, due to the fact that the UK is predominantly white, I'd say that white people are portrayed the most, but then there are plenty of people of other races represented in adverts I've seen on TV, because there are quite a few people of other races living here.

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What is considered beautiful or a sign of wealth in many societies? Is it a charred black, dark eyes, full lipped, wide nose, kinky head person? Or is that what's considered ugly in many societies of the world (can't speak for Africa though. Don't always know what they think there)? What is portrayed as beautiful in this world? If beauty is so biased in the world, who has room for racism towards the "beautiful" when they're too busy pitying themselves for not being like them? Who's influence is stronger?

You tell me yourself, what do you think is beautiful (or what do you consider more attractive) and what is portrayed as beautiful in your society? Do you see why I can be bitter at times? If someone were to tell you your straight hair isn't beautiful, your light skin is ugly, your thin nose is disgusting, how would you feel? If someone told you that your features were ugly, how would you feel? I don't think I'm ugly, but I have brown skin, I have dark eyes, I have full lips, I have a round nose, I have kinky hair.

You keep pushing this point about "who's considered beautiful, white or black people?", but what we were talking about was how common racism against white people is. Not who has the "better deal".

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And people say America has hardly any European influence. I don't know what to think of that.

Who says that?! The majority of Americans are originally European, so I don't know why people would think that at all.

Alex; schmetterling!:

Uh, what? ::Shifty: You don't think talking shit to someone and being violent towards them is bullying?

No. Bullying is repetitive physical abuse, in my dictionary. But just cracking jokes on someone, I don't consider bullying. Kids do it all the time. That's just what kids do. And it isn't just black people either. It's all races.

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British culture. As for race, due to the fact that the UK is predominantly white, I'd say that white people are portrayed the most, but then there are plenty of people of other races represented in adverts I've seen on TV, because there are quite a few people of other races living here.

But it's not just there in the UK. People in many cultures in the world have adapted this belief that the whiter you are, the more beautiful, or the more better off you are. Look it up.

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You keep pushing this point about "who's considered beautiful, white or black people?", but what we were talking about was how common racism against white people is. Not who has the "better deal".

That's what I'm getting at though. I don't think it's common at all and I've given you my reasons why. This is one of them.

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Who says that?! The majority of Americans are originally European, so I don't know why people would think that at all.

Well, I'm not going to say any names, but someone on this site, on a debate thread (not sure if it's this one) has said it.

^Your dictionary is archaic and outdated then, because that's not how bullying is defined anymore, and thankfully so for the kids who are the victims of verbal and online harassment.

ayanasioux:

No. Bullying is repetitive physical abuse, in my dictionary. But just cracking jokes on someone, I don't consider bullying. Kids do it all the time. That's just what kids do. And it isn't just black people either. It's all races.

Bullying can certainly be emotional. Even things such as the silent treatment are a form of bullying.

ayanasioux:

But it's not just there in the UK. People in many cultures in the world have adapted this belief that the whiter you are, the more beautiful, or the more better off you are. Look it up.

So by that logic, are Icelanders and Finns more beautiful and better off than Greeks and Italians?

ayanasioux:

That's what I'm getting at though. I don't think it's common at all and I've given you my reasons why. This is one of them.

But that reason, which deals with the fact that black people have commonly been subject to racism, doesn't suddenly imply that racism to white people is rare. They're two separate issues, not like two parts of a spectrum that affect each other's weight.

Kurtini:

^Your dictionary is archaic and outdated then, because that's not how bullying is defined anymore, and thankfully so for the kids who are the victims of verbal and online harassment.

Life is not supposed to be a nice Utopia. If people are going to have that mindset and tag anything that offends them, or "hurts their feelings", or let what people who don't matter to them control their life, as bullying, then my best bet is for them to move to an isolated area. Some people are cruel, and some people are nice. If someone is going to let what people say control their life, then it sounds like a personal problem. If I did that, I would probably dead or locked up right now. Words are words. That's why I classify bullying as physical abuse more than verbal, because that's when it gets really serious.

I find online bullying a joke. Just turn off the computer and don't go to the website as frequently. It's just a website and no one needs to be on the computer long enough to take the bullying. The internet is not a necessity, it's a privilege.

Alex; schmetterling!:

So by that logic, are Icelanders and Finns more beautiful and better off than Greeks and Italians?

You're comparing a blood orange to an orange with that statement. In my dictionary, they are still white people. I said the white race, I said nothing about nationalities.

ayanasioux:

I find online bullying a joke. Just turn off the computer and don't go to the website as frequently. It's just a website and no one needs to be on the computer long enough to take the bullying. The internet is not a necessity, it's a privilege.

What if the verbal abuse is racially motivated? Say, someone's getting racial epithets hurled at them on the Internet, being told to 'go back' to some other country, being generally abused because of their race....would you still think that to call it bullying is a joke? That it's something a person should just walk away from and not be affected by because they should feel privileged to be able to spend that much time on a computer anyway?

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You're comparing a blood orange to an orange with that statement. In my dictionary, they are still white people. I said the white race, I said nothing about nationalities.

You were talking about the belief that "the whiter you are, the more beautiful you are". There are plenty of differing shades of "white" skin, that's all I'm saying.

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Words are words. That's why I classify bullying as physical abuse more than verbal, because that's when it gets really serious.

And what about if someone makes a person with already-low self-esteem feel even worse about themselves with nothing but words, to the point of suicidal feelings, maybe even self-harm? Would that not be considered serious?

ayanasioux:

Life is not supposed to be a nice Utopia. If people are going to have that mindset and tag anything that offends them, or "hurts their feelings", or let what people who don't matter to them control their life, as bullying, then my best bet is for them to move to an isolated area. Some people are cruel, and some people are nice. If someone is going to let what people say control their life, then it sounds like a personal problem. If I did that, I would probably dead or locked up right now. Words are words. That's why I classify bullying as physical abuse more than verbal, because that's when it gets really serious.

I find online bullying a joke. Just turn off the computer and don't go to the website as frequently. It's just a website and no one needs to be on the computer long enough to take the bullying. The internet is not a necessity, it's a privilege.

Bullying can be verbal and can be more harmful than physical abuse. Why do you think gay teens kill themselves? Why do you think facebook is so often villified? Because as easy as it is to turn off the computer, it's just as easy to turn it on, hook up with your friends, and make a plan to make someone suffer. Bullying is not just physical, not by a long shot. And getting in a fight isn't bullying either, that's a fight. Someone shoving you against a locker every day for six months is bullying, and so is calling someone a cracker and cutting them out of social situations and treating them like less of a person. The motivation doesn't matter, however. Bullying is systematic and habitual abuse of someone.

The cases where someone kills themself because of physical abuse alone aren't common. The cases where verbal abuse escalates to physical abuse or suicidal feelings and results in death (google Reena Virk), are way too common. You belittle and marginalise the suffering of people who are being bullied when you say that it's just physical abuse.

^ I agree that verbal abuse can totally be more harmful than physical abuse at times, though it of course can be the other way around, too. It all depends on the specific circumstances. I also agree with classifying verbal abuse as 'bullying', so long as it is, as you said, 'systematic and habitual'. What I don't agree with is when people have their feelings hurt one time or get called a name one time, and then they claim they're being bullied. Just... no. Someone's being rude to you, but you're not being bullied. -.-'

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But in your fashion magazines, on your tv's, on the ads you see, which culture is portrayed the most?

Honestly? I see the predominant race in the area portrayed the most... which isn't racist, it just makes sense. I'm not saying that in some areas there aren't racist goals behind advertising and whatnot, but at least everywhere I've lived there's not. Basically every single advertisement with more than one person in it that I see has at least two races represented. I mean, yeah, the predominant race I see on ads is the white race, but when the population they're serving is predominantly white, then that's completely proportional and to be expected.

This goes back to the whole Black History Month thing; I personally think that schools shouldn't spend so much time going over one race and not the other in that kind of way. I mean, history is history, it doesn't have a color to it. I mean, we learn about mostly white guys when we learn about the Revolution, but that doesn't make that class racist or sexist, it just makes it a class focusing on the big details of that time period. I just get annoyed when people expect the amount of white guys discussed to be equal to the amount of -insert race here- guys to be discussed. I mean, if we're talking about atomic theory, we shouldn't have to also bring up a black guy or a chinese guy or something just because Dalton's white. Maybe that's just me, but it really gets on my nerves.