Charles Manson

Okay, YAY I was right.
:D

But yeah. I love to watch the stuff they have on TV with him, and all of his interviews.
He was smart, and obviously VERY persuasive!

I'm fascinated with Charlie Manson, really. Matt Skiba once said that everyone is fascinated by serial killers, because it comes from the basic human need to understand people. So don't feel bad if you're interested in him :D

If you hear what Sadie Mae Glutz and the girls in the Family said during the trial, it's unbelieveable. Basically they kept saying that they killed the people for God in the name of love, and it wasn't wrong because they did it in love, and had absolutely no remorse. It just amazes me that people can put so much faith into something, even murder people.

Wednesday Addams:

I'm fascinated with Charlie Manson, really. Matt Skiba once said that everyone is fascinated by serial killers, because it comes from the basic human need to understand people. So don't feel bad if you're interested in him :D

If you hear what Sadie Mae Glutz and the girls in the Family said during the trial, it's unbelieveable. Basically they kept saying that they killed the people for God in the name of love, and it wasn't wrong because they did it in love, and had absolutely no remorse. It just amazes me that people can put so much faith into something, even murder people.

Yeah, it's really sad that someone could be fed so much lies, and be so desperate to fit in and be loved that they'd kill innocent people. It's just...weird.

Freddie Mercury.:

Seems I find killers interesting :P

Okay, so Charles Manson.

If you don't know who he is, you can read about him here.

So, what do you think about him? Thoughts?

Killers are pretty interesting.
Charles Mason is pretty crazy. But he really didn't kill anyone. He had his "family" go out and kill Sharon Tate and the LaBiancas.

But I just read about the "joint-responsibility rule of conspiracy," so I guess he's guilty as the rest of them.

Garbage:

Killers are pretty interesting.
Charles Mason is pretty crazy. But he really didn't kill anyone. He had his "family" go out and kill Sharon Tate and the LaBiancas.

But I just read about the "joint-responsibility rule of conspiracy," so I guess he's guilty as the rest of them.

It was his fault all of it happened.
He gave them all drugs.
He planned all the murders.
As far as I'm concerned, he's even more guilty.

Plus, there's quite a few people that are considered serial killers that never killed anyone.

Its weird how Charles Manson was a Community Organizer.

And so was Barack Obama.

This is how I think Charles Manson's head worked:

Manson was born to a teenage prostitute who named him "no-name Maddox" as a joke (supposedly his birth father's last name was Maddox). He spent his childhood being shifted around either between relatives or boys' Ju-V halls. He had no sense of family, but he wanted to. All he wanted was love and family, like everyone else. But he was envious--he had so little while most people had so much more. Love, family...plus lots of money. He hated these people, especially those who possessed lots of money. He rationalized this as them being bad and him being good, and in his mind, this is why he hated them. He eventually drew a crowd of followers, called his Family, which consisted many of disillusioned older teens fresh out of high school and young adults. They didn't know what to believe, but what he said sounded right. Because Manson never talked straight: he talked in riddles, in contradictions, just like politicians. Because just like politicians, he wanted you to HAVE to agree with what he was saying, and you have to agree if you can't disagree. And this is also how he came to believe himself--this is how he rationalized the world. And these kids followed him. The Family gave him the loyalty, respect, and love he always sought. Moreover, they gave him control, so in a way, he found control too. Manson exercised domination and authority over the Family. Even those few who wanted to leave the Family couldn't because they knew that if Manson wouldn't get them himself, another loyal member would.

As for Helter Skelter...I believe that Manson at least partially believed in what he was saying. But I believe he 100% believed in seeking what he saw as "retribution" against those who "wronged" him: the upper white class who had everything that he didn't have.

Based on my research on Manson and the interviews I've seen with him, that is my theory.

The dude is just messed up.

^^
He didn't 'find' control of his family, he created control; they're two completely different things. He used drugs and lies to alter these people so they would do everything he said. If he found it, he would ask them to do something, and they would do it at their own free will.

Freddie Mercury.:

^^
He didn't 'find' control of his family, he created control; they're two completely different things. He used drugs and lies to alter these people so they would do everything he said. If he found it, he would ask them to do something, and they would do it at their own free will.

They did do it of their free will. That's why they're sitting in jail.

Aqua Crescent:

They did do it of their free will. That's why they're sitting in jail.

Okay, free will after he pumped them full of drugs and lies. It's hardly their own fault.

Freddie Mercury.:

Aqua Crescent:

They did do it of their free will. That's why they're sitting in jail.

Okay, free will after he pumped them full of drugs and lies. It's hardly their own fault.

Sure, he gave them drugs. Everyone was doing drugs back then. Butmost[ people doing drugs then and now don't become racist, sexist murderers like these kids did. I still maintain that, unless they felt threatened as Linda Kasabian did, they acted of their own accord. They were a bunch of, dare I say, dumb kids who didn't think for themselves because they didn't want to.

Aqua Crescent:

Sure, he gave them drugs. Everyone was doing drugs back then. Butmost[ people doing drugs then and now don't become racist, sexist murderers like these kids did. I still maintain that, unless they felt threatened as Linda Kasabian did, they acted of their own accord. They were a bunch of, dare I say, dumb kids who didn't think for themselves because they didn't want to.

He gave them drugs to alter their personalities. He made them believe that he was god and he was taking them to a new world or some shit, using drugs. Sure, they were probably very stupid people, and obviously very lonely, but the fact of the matter is, after all this shit was pumped into them, they didn't know right from left, letalone right from wrong.

Freddie Mercury.:

Aqua Crescent:

Sure, he gave them drugs. Everyone was doing drugs back then. Butmost[ people doing drugs then and now don't become racist, sexist murderers like these kids did. I still maintain that, unless they felt threatened as Linda Kasabian did, they acted of their own accord. They were a bunch of, dare I say, dumb kids who didn't think for themselves because they didn't want to.

He gave them drugs to alter their personalities. He made them believe that he was god and he was taking them to a new world or some shit, using drugs. Sure, they were probably very stupid people, and obviously very lonely, but the fact of the matter is, after all this shit was pumped into them, they didn't know right from left, letalone right from wrong.

Well, I highly disagree since every one of those kids were still repeating his BS even after they were sitting in jail for a time (Susan Atkins aka Sadie was quoted in saying to her cellmate, "Manson--man's son. Dig it.") and obviously weren't on drugs, not to mention most of them were A-students in high school so they obviously knew better than to get mixed up with this crap (This is all in Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter" if you wish to read a lengthy--and I do mean lengthy--,first-hand account of the case) but I'm tired of this discussion and wish to move on to other forums. Carry on if you wish.

Aqua Crescent:

Well, I highly disagree since every one of those kids were still repeating his BS even after they were sitting in jail for a time (Susan Atkins aka Sadie was quoted in saying to her cellmate, "Manson--man's son. Dig it.") and obviously weren't on drugs, not to mention most of them were A-students in high school so they obviously knew better than to get mixed up with this crap (This is all in Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter" if you wish to read a lengthy--and I do mean lengthy--,first-hand account of the case) but I'm tired of this discussion and wish to move on to other forums. Carry on if you wish.

It's not really fair to get into a healthy discussion with someone and then say you're sick of it, just because they disagree. :shifty

Freddie Mercury.:

Aqua Crescent:

Well, I highly disagree since every one of those kids were still repeating his BS even after they were sitting in jail for a time (Susan Atkins aka Sadie was quoted in saying to her cellmate, "Manson--man's son. Dig it.") and obviously weren't on drugs, not to mention most of them were A-students in high school so they obviously knew better than to get mixed up with this crap (This is all in Vincent Bugliosi's "Helter Skelter" if you wish to read a lengthy--and I do mean lengthy--,first-hand account of the case) but I'm tired of this discussion and wish to move on to other forums. Carry on if you wish.

It's not really fair to get into a healthy discussion with someone and then say you're sick of it, just because they disagree. :shifty

Well, it's obvious I'm not going to change my opinions and you're not going to change yours, so why keep going around in circles? I feel as though we are just repeating ourselves unnecessarily.

Aqua Crescent:

Well, it's obvious I'm not going to change my opinions and you're not going to change yours, so why keep going around in circles? I feel as though we are just repeating ourselves unnecessarily.

Isn't that what having a discussion is all about? Stating your point of view, etc. And who knows, one of us might've changed the others' opinions.

Freddie Mercury.:

Aqua Crescent:

Well, it's obvious I'm not going to change my opinions and you're not going to change yours, so why keep going around in circles? I feel as though we are just repeating ourselves unnecessarily.

Isn't that what having a discussion is all about? Stating your point of view, etc. And who knows, one of us might've changed the others' opinions.

Well, we both did state our points of view, and now we are just repeating ourselves. And if we are going to just keep repeat ing ourselves over and over, what's the point of continuing the discussion?

While I don't think he was a genius, I do think it's fairly obvious that he was very charismatic. People liked him, he was able to manipulate them into doing the things he wanted. Perhaps if he could've channeled this ability into another field--I don't know, LGBT rights or breast cancer research or something--then he could've done some really great things.
But he didn't.
He had a really bad upbringing, and while that can't excuse his crimes, it does offer a sort of explanation. His mother was an alcholic, I think, and his father was non-existent. It just goes to show how important a person's early life is to their later life.

I can't look at a picture of him without feeling sick inside.

I'm actually DVRing a Manson special right now and I have another one on DVR that I need to watch.
I think it's extremely interesting to read and it makes me want to learn more, but I'm not obsessed like some people.
Not that I'm saying it's a bad thing, it's just that I don't have the obsession.

I'm about half way through this Helter Skelter book that a friend let me borrow ages ago. :tehe: There's about 20 or so pages of pictures from the case in the middle and it's so so so facinating :XD