Anti-Burqa Laws Possible in Europe - Comments

Banning it to keep public places secure and to "promote" women's rights is okay.

However, there are some women who freely choose it.
I fear for the oppressed women. Those women who are forced to wear it may now be forced to stay at home eternally because their husbands or families won't let them out without proper Islamic coverings. :( That shall be sad.

Oops, HUGE typo! I meant to say not repressive. (:

For a class this year, I had to do extensive research into Islam. It's repressive. Hadith (accounts of what Muhammed said and did in his life) says that his wives wore the burqa, because the Qur'an says ALL (NOT only women, men too!) should dress modestly and not call attention to their bodies. Nothing is supposed to distract them from Allah, the only god. And it's worth saying only the most devout Muslims wear the burqa, which implies there is also a face veil- most just wear the hijab, which only covers the face. It's not sexist, at all, because in no way does Islam force them to wear it. But, they try to follow Muhammed in his life style (completing the 5 pillars of Islam: Shahadah, Salat, Zakah, Sawm, Hjj), and in his life, this is what his wives wore.
Many think in Islam, women are the lesser ones. But, this isn't at all true. Muhammed called all equal, but in Islam. men and women have different roles in life. A women's role is more home-based, while men work to support their families. While there is a few things in Islam men are favored over women for, you'll find that in almost any religion. Sorry for going off track there, but I'm sick of people dismissing Islam and saying it's a sexist religion- I have deep respect for Islam after doing my research. It's a very eye-opening religion.
I think this law sounds like a horrible idea. You can't tell someone not to wear their religious articles of faith. People have horrible ideas of Islam that don't at all have anything to do with the true ideas of Islam- the entire point of it is giving to charity, and being kind to all, while spreading the love and word of Allah. The radicals don't portray Islam well- they tend to be Shi'ites, which only make up 10% of the Islam population in the first place. And out of that 10%, even less are the ones creating terror across the world.
Stop judging Muslims and looking down on Islam, until you know more about it. I dare you to REALLY learn about Islam, and not diss it from the start or read an Internet page and think you're an expert. Then, you too, will know how ridiculous this law is.
If anyone wants to chat about Islam, comment on my page. I am truly awed by that religion, even if I myself am Athiest. (:

That's a little repressive. I hope theydon't pass this law.

Have a little respect for other people's beliefs. They should be allowed to freely express themselves and their religion.

You're not allowed to wear a motorbike helmet in public (even at petrol stations when you're filling your bike up) because it covers your face, so I don't think banning burkas is discrimatory. If they move to European countries they have to adapt. We would be expected to do the same if we moved to their country.

@ Juicebox.: you wouldn't say that if you felt victimized by a certain law.
And, in regards for the women who are against it, has anyone asked the other women about their opinion?
I've just been reading and all these French officials and whatever are going on and on about women's dignity -bullcrap, because we know this is all political- and I'm just wondering, "well, did anyone ask the [i]women[/i] in question?" Because from my point of view, those official are just saying generic feminist broken records, but not really considering the cultural effects of the niqab. Yes, I did say that I'm against it, but (as Kurtni mentioned) some people, misinformed though or affected by their own envoirnement, consider it a part of the religion (mostly the men, who in turn make the women wear it and who, in turn, make their daughters wear it and so on).

Also, about the holdups, you just said [i]some[/i] people did that. It doesn't mean that everyone is prone to holding up stores with burqas. If they even knew of or had acess to burqas in the first place. The only reason this is getting attention is because the face covering is associated with a certain religion, otherwise, in addition to Kafka.'s point, why aren't [i]all[/i] face coverings forbidden? Because people actually have a [i]reason[/i] for wearing this one.

And
@ Kurtni: allow me to have the liberty to say that 'political' term is misleading. . . as all politics and political terms are. And Abdullah Basti(a)n, from what I understand and read, is a Belgian Muslim, which might be why his definition is different, as I am Arab and Middle Eastern and European and (Mid-)Eastern Mulisms concepts of things tend to differ- greatly at some points. I'm speaking from the point of view of a woman, a Muslim and an Arab. Yeah, I'm an open-minded (with my mind pried open at an obtuse angle) person, but I was raised on and taught this stuff since I was a little girl, so I presume I know what I'm saying. Well, from a Middle Eastern Sunni Kuwaiti point of view. Not very specific, eh?
Yeah, the ban would be bad, in the sense it's totall bullcrap and has an agenda (as most Arabs/Muslims with a vicitimization complex would assume) but it would bring great comfort to the poor ol' citizens of Belgium to know that there aren't any crazy people in burqas trying to kill/rob/rape/etc them and get away with it.

And did you know that the burqa and niqab are different things ^v^? -studying linguistics. . . 'nuff said-

@bloodfrost
Only if you think it's perfectly normal to be forced to dress in a certain way.

@Juicebox.
Wouldn't it then be normal for shops, banks, etc. to any garment that covers the face on their premises, not for the state to ban them altogether? A lot of people wear ski masks when committing robberies, but ski masks are perfectly legal.

@digestives You said this was outrageous because your bestfriend is a muslim but... a lot of muslim people in Europe are against the niqab, or the burqa.

In Europe -France, at least-, it is considered as an infringement of civil liberties of women. The association Ni Putes Ni Soumises -Neither Whores Nor Submissives-, founded by a muslim Woman, Fadela Amara, and ruled by Sihem Habchi acclaimed this project to forbid the burqa on the French soil.
And I agree with bloodfrost, as long as you're on a foreign soil, you must accept the rules & laws.

Plus, I also feel the need to add that some people made hold-ups in shops dressed in a burqa so you couldn't recognize them ._____.
This is another reason.

Well, according to Abdullah Bastin(and all other sources I looked at), the burqa and hijab are defied differently than you do. I don't think you're wrong, I just this this confusion about what to call garments is part of the problem, and ads to the things that make this ban a bad idea.

As I stated before, the name of the garment doesn't matter, anything that covers the face would be illegal. Burqa is just the term the politicians refer to to collectively cover everything.

Kurtni, a hijab is different than burqa. The hijab -what you mentioned- is the headscarf. The, if I may say so, the 'official' head cover in Islam. Nothing should be visible but the face and the wrists. And I agree that there's a difference in interpretation of these verses as there are four branches of law/verse interpreting schools -[i]fiqh[/i] schools aka Islamic jurisprudence - in Islams: the Hanbali school, Shafii school, Ja'fari school and the and the Maliki) and all have different opinions; those are only the Sunni schools of fiqh. The Shii'a Muslims, for example, think that the chin is a part of the face, thus it should be covered (I know this from my bff who is Shii, but doesn't practice that).


In addition, the burqa doesn't cover the entire body, Kurtni. It only covers the face (in addition to the hair evidently). What you're talking about, what covers the entire body, is the khimaar. And no. Actually there's is not outfit that covers the entire body. The khimaar is actually longer than a hijab but does not cover the face. My mistake.
What you're really talking about is a mixture of hijab, plus the burqa worn over the face then the abbaya (which is usually black and it's literally a cloak), covering the body.

and I'm the one who should be sorry for the misunderstanding, just_call_me_dookie. :

i think that it's only fair to follow the rules of the country you're in. i am now here in Saudi Arabia, a foreigner, but i follow their rules in wearing a burqa...because that is what their government and their religion dictates.

now, in the case of muslim women, wouldn't it be reasonable for them to follow the rules also of a foreign country once they are on its soil? just for reciprocity.

@koosh ball
It depends on the denomination and the monastic order. An Orthodox nun will wear a black garment/veil that covers everything except her hands and face so it's not that different from a woman wearing a hijab, if anything stricter.

I wasn't being sarcastic! Really! I didn't know! :[ I'm sorry.

A burqa is a garmet that covers the entire outer body. A hijab is simply the head covering, not the entire body. It doesn't matter in this case because both would be illegal.

I think people need to know the difference between a hijab and a burqa before accusations are made.

Woah ya it just irratates the everything out of me! I wear a scarf and I don´t know what I´d do if a law was passed against it here. I have a journal on this topic also because the newspaper articles against it were just so horribly horrible.

@ Heartswell: Surah al-Ahzab verse 59 of the Quran is translated by many to read "O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outergarments (jilbabs) close around themselves." That's the most famous verse cited I've seen that many Muslims and Muslim women use it to explain why they do wear coverings in public, while others believe it means to only dress modestly. While you may not consider the burqa a part of your religion, some Muslims do out of not only cultural tradition but religious basis as well.

The sarcasm was unneeded, just_call_me_dookie. I was just making a clarification to the people who think it's a part of the religion. As the terms Arab and Muslim get confused with each other, heavily associated or just used interchargeably these days.

And no. It won't make it 'okay'.

Oh thanks for that Heartswell. Maybe it'll be okay then. I didn't know it was Arab not Muslim.

@Elephant Shell
a yamake does not cover the hair entirely, nor does it cover the face.
___________________

as for the nun headdress (wimple XD, i'm sorry but it sounds funny when said out loud rather than reading it ... nvm it's both XD), that only covers most of their hair. the updated headdress of today aren't that much different.