Heaven and Hell

skank.:

^
It could, but why would it need to? It's the same with proving and dissproving the existence of anything like God; for the most part, you can't prove one side or the other.

Then, if you can't prove either side of the argument and you just believe you're right, isn't Atheism based on faith just as much as Theism is?

Dancing Caveman:

Evolution is more than an idea. It wasn't just a concept that randomly popped into Darwin's head one day. It's a part of biology. There were numerous facts which were already known, and Darwin was able to piece something together.

Religion, on the other hand, was just thought of by primitive people who couldn't explain the way things work.

"How do you suppose that big, bright thing above us got there?"

[Insert religious story].

There's really nothing factual about any religion.

The theory of evolution was an idea that Charles Darwin formulated. If you suggest that Darwin's mind had nothing to do with the theory and that we shouldn't credit him as the discover of evolution or that evolution isn't real because it's an idea humans have, then maybe you're mistaken? There have been other -scientific- theories on how life on Earth originated, we just seemed to find Darwin's most correct.

Look at this now:
"How do you suppose that peacock got to have such beautiful bright colored feathers while other birds don't?"

Science is thought by -modern- people to explain phenomenons that they can't understand. Why is logic logical, why is our world ruled by the cause-effect law, why is everything rational? There's nothing scientific about religion, nobody is suggesting that anything is.

And as Meg pointed out already, some religions are more recent.

kafka.:

The theory of evolution was an idea that Charles Darwin formulated. If you suggest that Darwin's mind had nothing to do with the theory and that we shouldn't credit him as the discover of evolution or that evolution isn't real because it's an idea humans have, then maybe you're mistaken?

Huh? I never said anything like that... at all. I said that evolution is more than an idea. It was a way to piece together various information scientists already had. I think you may have really misunderstood me...

kafka.:

There have been other -scientific- theories on how life on Earth originated, we just seemed to find Darwin's most correct.

Uh... no? Evolution explains nothing about how life originated. That's A-biogensis. You know, if you don't know what evolution even explains, perhaps you shouldn't be debating it, yes?

kafka.:

Look at this now:
"How do you suppose that peacock got to have such beautiful bright colored feathers while other birds don't?"

Science is thought by -modern- people to explain phenomenons that they can't understand. Why is logic logical, why is our world ruled by the cause-effect law, why is everything rational? There's nothing scientific about religion, nobody is suggesting that anything is.

I'm not sure what the majority of this part had to do with what I had typed, but okay...

kafka.:

And as Meg pointed out already, some religions are more recent.

Yeah, like... Scientology (Scientology makes a LOT of sense, doesn't it?).

But the whole point is, you'll never find out until you die anyway. You won't find out until either the mothership comes (or whatever Scientology's about) or until you die.

Dancing Caveman:

Uh... no? Evolution explains nothing about how life originated. That's A-biogensis. You know, if you don't know what evolution even explains, perhaps you shouldn't be debating it, yes?

You know, before you go making extremely condescending comments about another user's ability to discuss a topic, you might want to do a bit of research yourself. For example, the RNA world hypothesis is a key element to many evolutionist's explanation of evolution, because it explains how life began and how things began to differ. Without differences, evolution could have never occurred. While we can understand how things are evolving, we'll never understand why until we know how life originated, making it key to the study of evolution.

There was absolutely no need for you to question her competence like that, you can discuss something without being mean.

At any rate, this is off topic and should be taken to the evolution thread.

I'm not sure but I believe I've posted on this topic before, but either way, I do believe Heaven and Hell exist, although I have no proof they do, I believe in the Bible, and in the Bible it so states that they exist.

I don't believe in hell.

I do however believe fully in Kharma, she and I go WAY back.

But Hell and Karma are like, two completely different things.

Personally, what I believe is that when you die, you go to the place that you believe in.

So, let's just say, for example's sake, that I believed that I would go to a land made of candyfloss, full of sweets and chocoate and stuff, then that is where I would go when I die.

But, let's say Fred believes that you go to a parallel world, where it's just like Earth, but with dead people in it instead, then that is where Fred would go when he dies.

That's my idea.

To get to heaven I believe that if you have disobeyed the ten commandments all you have to do is ask God for forgiveness. As to of where its located I couldn't tell you.

As far as hell goes, I don't think God would send his children to hell to be damned for all of eternity.

^Okay, here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to create my own religion, and everyone has to worship me. We'll start by drawing pictures of God, and then ripping them up to form a cool picture that actually looks like me. Of course, while we're doing this, we'll be damning God and everything because we're not afraid of anything! And all of this will be done on Sunday. When people ask about the religion, we'll lie. But we will try to go after some rich people because, you know, we definitely want their money because we're greedy assholes.

Okay? God still forgives me so far, right?

Alright, now I'm starting to get fed up with humanity. I'm going to beat the crap out of my parents for being horrible to me as a kid. Then, I'm going to kill them and dump their bodies in a landfill, go back to their house and take all the money. While I'm leaving and laughing, I'll rape a little kid.

But hey, you know, it's cool. That second part is still all a part of the ten commandments. I can just keep raping, killing, and stealing until I'm on my death bed. Then, I'll just accept Jesus as my Lord and beg God for forgiveness, because according to you, he'll totally forgive me, and hey, if he doesn't- it's cool because I won't be there for eternity anyway.

Sounds like an awesome plan!

^ He'll only forgive you if you are truly sorry. It doesn't work if you lack remorse.

The Rumor:

^ He'll only forgive you if you are truly sorry. It doesn't work if you lack remorse.

I think that's just disgusting. People who are truly sorry about murder, rape, and theft will get into heaven while two men or women, who's only crime is that they love each other, will go to hell. People who have hurt/killed innocent people will go to heaven while a non-Christian who lives a respectable life will go to hell because God is so jealous that they didn't worship him or his "son."

Well, the Priest at my church doesn't reckon anyone is in hell except for Satan.

The Rumor:

Well, the Priest at my church doesn't reckon anyone is in hell except for Satan.

Then why have rules and worship God?

Because it's right, we love God, and because Jesus didn't suffer so that we could throw it back in His face and say, 'well, you'll just forgive me anyway!'

Then why is there even a Hell, and why does the Bible say that people will go to Hell if they do bad things/piss God off?

I don't believe that humans have souls, so therefore I don't believe in Heaven or Hell.

The Rumor:

Well, the Priest at my church doesn't reckon anyone is in hell except for Satan.

Why Lucifer?
What about the other angels that fell with Lucifer? They can leave, and he can't? Essentially, their crime was the same. It seems wholly unfair to only hold one person to account.

I think if heaven and hell exists, everyone should go to hell until they've been punished for the bad things they've done (because everyone does bad things and everyone should be punished for them) and after that they should go to heaven. I think it's the only fair way to deal with people. I also completely reject the idea of eternal damnation; no one deserves to be punished for the rest of time, no one. Everyone deserves a happy ending, even if it takes them a while to get there.

I don't actually believe this is what happens 'cause I don't think God's all that fair, if God does exist, but it's what I'd like to happen.

fooleish:

I think if heaven and hell exists, everyone should go to hell until they've been punished for the bad things they've done (because everyone does bad things and everyone should be punished for them) and after that they should go to heaven. I think it's the only fair way to deal with people. I also completely reject the idea of eternal damnation; no one deserves to be punished for the rest of time, no one. Everyone deserves a happy ending, even if it takes them a while to get there.

I don't actually believe this is what happens 'cause I don't think God's all that fair, if God does exist, but it's what I'd like to happen.

Isn't that along the lines of the Catholic purgatory?

but eh. If there is such a thing as Heaven and by some terrible oversight that I get in, I do hope it's that whole concept of a "personal" Heaven. I know for some people that traditional idea of angels and seeing all your relatives you lost and such would be good but eh...

If Heaven was a TARDIS then I think my opinion on things would change. But yeah, I'm not hugely keen on the Afterlife. I'd rather just go with oblivion.