Proposed (and Approved) Mosque at Ground Zero in NYC

lovecraft:

Once again.
They can build a mosque.
They can build it there, if they really want to.
But building it to 'make amends' for 9/11 is tasteless, offensive, and pointless.

Secondly, it wasn't a ground zero mosque, it was a prayer room, in a building that happened to be the WTC.

Third, anyone else find it ironic that this is being tacitly approved by the city(Supported by politicians, not that the government has any say in the situation), but the rebuilding of a greek orthodox church that was destroyed on 9/11 wasn't? And the Port Authority IS responsible for the rebuilding of all those buildings. I suppose because it isn't controversial, it's unimportant.
From the article: "On Sunday, demonstrators for and against the mosque faced off across police barricades at ground zero." That kind of makes me feel sick inside. Way to be disrespectful.

I still fail to see why people are getting on his case for mentioning it when if he didn't, he would be hauled over the coals for it anyway.

He's in a catch-22 situation.

wastingpaper:

i think some people don't understand where the anger in this proposal is coming from. it isn't anger at the fact there is to be a mosque built, but rather where it is going to be. it's all well and good that american's should respect muslims right to worship in a mosque since muslims also died during 9/11, but i think the muslim community should show american's more understanding and not propose the building of a mosque what like, 2 streets away from where muslim extremeists murdered thousands
i know this is all agreeing with you lovecraft haha

There's still churches and chapels in Northern Ireland, is there not?

wastingpaper:

i think some people don't understand where the anger in this proposal is coming from. it isn't anger at the fact there is to be a mosque built, but rather where it is going to be. it's all well and good that american's should respect muslims right to worship in a mosque since muslims also died during 9/11, but i think the muslim community should show american's more understanding and not propose the building of a mosque what like, 2 streets away from where muslim extremeists murdered thousands

"We respect Muslims but OH NO THEY CAN'T BUILD A MOSQUE HERE BECAUSE IT OFFENDS US. Never mind that Muslims died in the attacks. Never mind that 9/11 marked the beginning of mainstream Islamophobia. Never mind that there are people burning the Qu'ran. Never mind that only a small percentage of Muslims are extremists."

I really, really don't think Muslims are sitting in their homes laughing at the rest of the U.S. right now. I really don't think they sat down and plotted a way to bring up 9/11 and decided to build a Mosque to piss the rest of the U.S. off.

lovecraft:

Once again.
They can build a mosque.
They can build it there, if they really want to.
But building it to 'make amends' for 9/11 is tasteless, offensive, and pointless.

Secondly, it wasn't a ground zero mosque, it was a prayer room, in a building that happened to be the WTC.

Third, anyone else find it ironic that this is being tacitly approved by the city(Supported by politicians, not that the government has any say in the situation), but the rebuilding of a greek orthodox church that was destroyed on 9/11 wasn't? And the Port Authority IS responsible for the rebuilding of all those buildings. I suppose because it isn't controversial, it's unimportant.
From the article: "On Sunday, demonstrators for and against the mosque faced off across police barricades at ground zero." That kind of makes me feel sick inside. Way to be disrespectful.

I'd also like to point out....isn't the Imam of this mosque's job to go to the Middle East and create ties with Muslims?

And it's also being argued against by politicians. And I'm sure there are people who are for building that Greek Orthodox church. There's arguments on all sides of both debates.

wastingpaper:

i think some people don't understand where the anger in this proposal is coming from. it isn't anger at the fact there is to be a mosque built, but rather where it is going to be. it's all well and good that american's should respect muslims right to worship in a mosque since muslims also died during 9/11, but i think the muslim community should show american's more understanding and not propose the building of a mosque what like, 2 streets away from where muslim extremeists murdered thousands
i know this is all agreeing with you lovecraft haha

So Muslim Americans should show more respect to...themselves? Since they're also Americans I'm assuming that's what you meant when you said "americans".

wastingpaper:

i think some people don't understand where the anger in this proposal is coming from. it isn't anger at the fact there is to be a mosque built, but rather where it is going to be. it's all well and good that american's should respect muslims right to worship in a mosque since muslims also died during 9/11, but i think the muslim community should show american's more understanding and not propose the building of a mosque what like, 2 streets away from where muslim extremeists murdered thousands
i know this is all agreeing with you lovecraft haha

Personally, I get where the anger is coming from. I just think it's unjustified. It's two blocks away, not on the freakin' site.

Also, you can be American and also be a Muslim. There are many, many people who are born and raised in America who become Muslim or who are Muslim because they're family are also Muslim. Some migrants who happen to be Muslim also get citizenship. So I don't really understand why you're all "Muslims vs. Americans". Not all Muslims come from the one place.

acetylene virgin:

There's still churches and chapels in Northern Ireland, is there not?

are you trying to compare the damage the ira done with 9/11?

pierrot the clown.:

I really, really don't think Muslims are sitting in their homes laughing at the rest of the U.S. right now. I really don't think they sat down and plotted a way to bring up 9/11 and decided to build a Mosque to piss the rest of the U.S. off.

i don't think think they are either, that isn't what i meant. i just think the Muslim community in America could have shown more compassion about where is and and isn't appropriate to build a mosque. i don't believe any place of worship for any religion should be near ground zero

fightoffyourdemons.:

So Muslim Americans should show more respect to...themselves? Since they're also Americans I'm assuming that's what you meant when you said "americans".

i meant more so xenophobic american's who kind of blame all muslims for what happened when it was only 19 extremists who carried out those attacks. i can see where you might have gotten confused, didn't word my original post too well

veronika:

Personally, I get where the anger is coming from. I just think it's unjustified. It's two blocks away, not on the freakin' site.

Also, you can be American and also be a Muslim. There are many, many people who are born and raised in America who become Muslim or who are Muslim because they're family are also Muslim. Some migrants who happen to be Muslim also get citizenship. So I don't really understand why you're all "Muslims vs. Americans". Not all Muslims come from the one place.

i know you can, i worded my original post poorly. i was referring to americans who are of a different faith. it's xenophobic americans who are acting like it is 'muslim vs america'. i don't think any religious place should be built near ground zero.

wastingpaper:

are you trying to compare the damage the ira done with 9/11?

Yup.
The comment has been made that the US is not the only country to experience terrorism. And to be entirely honest, though it's terrorism on perhaps a less... I want to say spectacular, but that sounds horrible, I'ma go with it anyways.. scale, but it's terrorism nonetheless, and I'm sure it's perfectly awful for people who live with it.

And are you trying to belittle their pain because you think yours is worse?

wastingpaper:

i don't think think they are either, that isn't what i meant. i just think the Muslim community in America could have shown more compassion about where is and and isn't appropriate to build a mosque. i don't believe any place of worship for any religion should be near ground zero

What about the Greek Church they're rebuilding? The mosque that's already there?

Also, it's one of the rules of the board that we use proper grammar and try to spell right. Please start capitalising your sentences, you can get banned if you don't.

veronika:

Personally, I get where the anger is coming from. I just think it's unjustified. It's two blocks away, not on the freakin' site.

I can understand that point of view as well.
I don't know. There are valid points on both sides of the non-issue (it's being built, no matter what we say. ), but I do have to side with the position of against, just because I don't believe it's respectful to be building it where it is, and making such a big deal of it. I can bet you that the mosque is getting a hell of a lot more funding (and criticism) than it would have had the media not paid attention. Once again, the notion that that which is ignored will fail and that which is repressed will flourish is shown.

wastingpaper:

are you trying to compare the damage the ira done with 9/11?

Well, not only the IRA but the UVF, the UDA etc etc.

And yes, I am.

They are all extremist terrorist organisations with a religion-y flavour. They have both killed civilians.

@lovecraft It won't let me quote your point :s

I wasn't belittling the damage the IRA have done in NI, bu it's not on the same scale, nor is the business in Glasgow airport a few years back, nor is the bombings in the underground in London which was also a few years ago. They were all awful actions, but 9/11 is the most memorable terrorist action because it happened in 3 different states and thousands were killed. In regards to how much damage was done at IRA bombings and 9/11 and how many civilians were killed, the two are incomparable. But we shouldn't judge how tragic something is based on how many lives are taken, all death is tragic.

My pain? I'm not American...

I don't think any place of worship should be near sites like ground zero, but that's just me.

I do usually use capitals etc but I was on my ipod and it was way too much of a struggle.

acetylene virgin:

Well, not only the IRA but the UVF, the UDA etc etc.

And yes, I am.

They are all extremist terrorist organisations with a religion-y flavour. They have both killed civilians.

Yes, the IRA has killed innocent people, as the UVF, the UDA etc etc but for this generation, Al-Qaeda will be viewed as the most vicious based on the extent of the damge they done. It's just how the media portrays terrorist attacks, the ones which kill the most people will be viewed as worse, but I'm sure if you had family who got killed in 7th of July bombings in London you'd regard that with say... more horror than 9/11, even though 9/11 killed thousands more people.

Honestly, it doesn't matter how much life was lost in 9/11. Not in regards to this particular case. (I'm not trying to demean the life that was lost.)

Regardless, it is completely within someone's right to build a mosque.

rescue druscilla.:

Honestly, it doesn't matter how much life was lost in 9/11. Not in regards to this particular case. (I'm not trying to demean the life that was lost.)

Regardless, it is completely within someone's right to build a mosque.

Well it does matter that life is lost, it was a tragic thing to happen.

It is, but we don't have to agree with it.

wastingpaper:

Yes, the IRA has killed innocent people, as the UVF, the UDA etc etc but for this generation, Al-Qaeda will be viewed as the most vicious based on the extent of the damge they done. It's just how the media portrays terrorist attacks, the ones which kill the most people will be viewed as worse, but I'm sure if you had family who got killed in 7th of July bombings in London you'd regard that with say... more horror than 9/11, even though 9/11 killed thousands more people.

Regardless, it is still comparable.

wastingpaper:

Well it does matter that life is lost, it was a tragic thing to happen.

You took what I said out of context. Of course it matters. It doesn't matter in regards to the mosque.

wastingpaper:

But we shouldn't judge how tragic something is based on how many lives are taken, all death is tragic.

This would have been a lovely comeback, were you not refuting your own argument.

You just spent a few posts explaining how the Troubles weren't as bad, and the London bombings weren't as bad, and other acts of terrorism weren't as bad, because more people died in 9/11. And then you say you shouldn't judge tragedy by lives lost. Also, from brief googling I found about 3,500 people have died due to the conflicts in NI. So it's not all that "incomparable" a number.

wastingpaper:

I don't think any place of worship should be near sites like ground zero, but that's just me.

So if this community centre contained a church, you'd find it just as disrespectful and call on Christians to be more compassionate about the proposal.
---

Either way, this entire thing is an embarrassing butterfly effect for the media. How they made the simple building of a community centre into a worldwide point of controversy is as astounding as it is kinda pathetic.

Sheepy:

So if this community centre contained a church, you'd find it just as disrespectful and call on Christians to be more compassionate about the proposal. And also take offense to the churches in NI and the Mosques in London. And also to churches anywhere in Europe where the crusades took place. Right?

---

Either way, this entire thing is an embarrassing butterfly effect for the media. How they made the simple building of a community centre into a worldwide point of controversy is as astounding as it is kinda pathetic.

I never said other acts of terrorism aren't as bad. Conflicts in NI due to the IRA?

Nope, I don't think any building of worship should be near ground zero.

Sheepy:

Either way, this entire thing is an embarrassing butterfly effect for the media. How they made the simple building of a community centre into a worldwide point of controversy is as astounding as it is kinda pathetic.

It is quite depressing, isn't it?

Although the website does make it look quite a cool place to go and I'd love to visit when I go to NY in the future.

^It's exceedingly depressing, but it's the status quo. Look at the massive shitstorm created over that Florida pastor. No way, someone somewhere's doing something that's religiously insensitive? Breaking news!

wastingpaper:

I never said other acts of terrorism aren't as bad. Conflicts in NI due to the IRA?

Nope, I don't think any building of worship should be near ground zero.

You said they "weren't on the same scale", while saying that numbers don't matter because all death is tragic. Was just a little jarring for me as far as consecutive statements go.

But if we are talking numbers, 9/11 was utterly brutal, it killed a staggering amount of innocent people for one attack. But if we're talking scale, I'd just flick a wrist at just how many civillians got killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...But either way...don't see the connection between a community center and 19 hijackers.

Why don't you want religious places near Ground Zero again?