Proposed (and Approved) Mosque at Ground Zero in NYC

There is nothing wrong with building an Islamic center a few blocks away from Ground Zero.
It is ridiculous that people are making a big deal of this.

People aren't proposing to build an Islamic center a few blocks away from Ground Zero, they're proposing to build it on Ground Zero; two completely different concepts.

I'm all for religious freedom, and any freedom really, but I don't think that any religious center should be built on Ground Zero. Ground Zero should be open for all Americans to mourn those that died on 9/11, much like Pearl Harbor. It should be a place a solemn remembrance. .Building anything there except for a monument to those that died seems ridiculous.

To be honest, I find it rude that a building of a Mosque was even proposed, and that's not being racist or discriminating against Muslims. I would be just as offended if any other religion had proposed the idea and been approved. It's a lack of decorum to even propose such a thing. By building anything that isn't a monument it excludes certain people from just being able to go and sit for a moment to remember that life is fragile and can end in a moment on the whim of another or just time catching up with our transient bodies.

I have personally been to Pearl Harbor and everyone treats the center with respect. I don't think that it's right to build something on Ground Zero that won't represent all of the lives lost on 9/11

^ No... it's two blocks away from Ground Zero.

I mapped it out for you guys. The red is Ground Zero. The green is possible locations for the community center. This means an approximately two block radius from Ground Zero. The yellow is churches visible on Google Maps within the two block radius.

hatsu-kouen2143:

Building anything there except for a monument to those that died seems ridiculous.

If you look at the plans for the redevelopment of the WTC site, they're proposing to build a Performing Arts Center on Ground Zero (I guess? I'm not familiar with New York, but the site describes it as 'the cultural component of the new World Trade Center' in addition to the WTC museum). I thought it was a nice idea.

hatsu-kouen2143:

People aren't proposing to build an Islamic center a few blocks away from Ground Zero, they're proposing to build it on Ground Zero; two completely different concepts.

Not to be rude, but where did you hear that lie?
The planned Islamic Center is a few blocks away from Ground Zero.

^ For technicalities' sake, can I just add in that the planned "Islamic center" is actually a community center? As in, with a community pool, a place for lectures to be held, and a place of prayer for those of the Islam faith. And there might be a couple more commodities in the deal that I'm forgetting, but I attended a lecture on this subject a couple of days ago (which explains why I'm butting in; sorry, guys. ), and that was what I was told.

Matt Smith:

If you look at the plans for the redevelopment of the WTC site, they're proposing to build a Performing Arts Center on Ground Zero (I guess? I'm not familiar with New York, but the site describes it as 'the cultural component of the new World Trade Center' in addition to the WTC museum). I thought it was a nice idea.

I thought the plan was to build a 'Freedom Tower' on Ground Zero? As in, a place of business, and a memorial to the victoms as well? (Feel free to correct me if I've been misinformed)

Takanori Matsumoto.:

I thought the plan was to build a 'Freedom Tower' on Ground Zero? As in, a place of business, and a memorial to the victoms as well? (Feel free to correct me if I've been misinformed)

Well, that website outlines plans to build various things (including the '1 World Trade Center', as it calls it). But the website also describes plans to build a Museum and a Performing Arts Center (and some other things) on the same site. I guess Ground Zero is big enough to build several things on.

^ That's actually kind of interesting. What I find kind of odd is this: plans for this community center have been in the works for two years (they're already using the property for a mosque and everything), and these plans offend the hell out of everyone. Yet, when plans have been in the works for years (and I can't remember for the life of me how long they've been planning the Freedom Tower) for a place of business/recreation/whatever right on top of Ground Zero, and there's (comparatively) zero protest.

Is this odd to anyone else?

Takanori Matsumoto.:

^ That's actually kind of interesting. What I find kind of odd is this: plans for this community center have been in the works for two years (they're already using the property for a mosque and everything), and these plans offend the hell out of everyone. Yet, when plans have been in the works for years (and I can't remember for the life of me how long they've been planning the Freedom Tower) for a place of business/recreation/whatever right on top of Ground Zero, and there's (comparatively) zero protest.

Is this odd to anyone else?

They've been planning that "freedom tower" or the new WTC for quite a while, but they've yet to make any real progress on it. If anything, I think the only protest is that it isn't getting built fast enough. I'd also like to point out that when the Islamic community center was first planned on being built, many people supported (including Fox News, surprisingly). It wasn't until only recently that people started opposing it, which I can only guess to be politics like reelections and campaigns.

As far as this new WTC goes, this is the design I keep seeing on the news and websites about what they plan for it to look like.

I think they should understand that Americans would feel disrespected because of this. Especially the people who lost people in Semptember 11. Of course, this is a free country as well. And not allowing them build the Mosque is like racism against them. It would be easier if they would just respect our veiws and put it somewhere else. We're not saying they can't build it, just not there.
It's disrespecting the people who died that day.

EyesForLiars:

I think they should understand that Americans would feel disrespected because of this. Especially the people who lost people in Semptember 11. Of course, this is a free country as well. And not allowing them build the Mosque is like racism against them. It would be easier if they would just respect our veiws and put it somewhere else. We're not saying they can't build it, just not there.
It's disrespecting the people who died that day.

There were Muslims that died that day to. To be against the builing of a center for their culture would be disrespectful.

EyesForLiars:

I think they should understand that Americans would feel disrespected because of this. Especially the people who lost people in Semptember 11. Of course, this is a free country as well. And not allowing them build the Mosque is like racism against them. It would be easier if they would just respect our veiws and put it somewhere else. We're not saying they can't build it, just not there.
It's disrespecting the people who died that day.

First of all, being a Muslim doesn't mean you're also not American. You can be American and a Muslim. A lot of Muslims are born in America. So it's not really case as "Muslims vs. Americans" because that doesn't make sense.

Also, why is is disrespectful to build this building two blocks away from Ground Zero? I've said it in this thread before, and I'll say it again: is there some kind of (silly) invisible radius around GZ that no one can touch (at least, not with a Cultural Centre)?

the sea:

Not to be rude, but where did you hear that lie?
The planned Islamic Center is a few blocks away from Ground Zero.

No it's just fine. I'm dearly sorry, I was mistaken.
Thank you for the clarification. :)

By not building the Islamic center there, and by making a big deal of out if, you're more or less finishing the terrorist's work for them.

They want to make rifts between Western society and Islam. If you encourage these divides, it's only going to encourage them to use more violence.

I also, personally, find it difficult to entertain the idea of someone who doesn't even live in NYC (or even in the state of NY) becoming so involved in this issue. In a few years time, you probably won't even remember this happened.

heyJAYhey:

I also, personally, find it difficult to entertain the idea of someone who doesn't even live in NYC (or even in the state of NY) becoming so involved in this issue. In a few years time, you probably won't even remember this happened.

I don't even live in America and I found myself becoming pissed over this issue, mainly at others reactions to it (all the anti-Muslim shit).

I think the reason that was was because I was sick of people in general stigmatising Muslims and Islam and I felt a lot of people - not really referring to people in this thread, but just generally - used this issue as a platform to spout Islamophobia and their prejudice. I don't have to live in NYC to have my feathers ruffled by that.

heyJAYhey:

By not building the Islamic center there, and by making a big deal of out if, you're more or less finishing the terrorist's work for them.

They want to make rifts between Western society and Islam. If you encourage these divides, it's only going to encourage them to use more violence.

I also, personally, find it difficult to entertain the idea of someone who doesn't even live in NYC (or even in the state of NY) becoming so involved in this issue. In a few years time, you probably won't even remember this happened.

Osama bin Laden has said repeatedly the attacks happened and will continue to happen until specific foreign policies (American policy in the Middle East and its support of Israel) are stopped.

So... Yeah. I'm all for making rifts between radical afghan states and the rest of the world. If that involves not disrespecting the people who died in a tragic attack, well, I can't really see having a problem with that.

As for forgetting. Surely, you're not implying people everywhere are going to forget 9/11, or am I misinterpreting you?

^^^

Definitely not. That's not what I'm implying at all.

What I'm more implying is this: you of course remember the Indian Ocean Tsunami, correct? Can you remember every problem that stemmed from it?

Or a problem closer to home: Hurricane Katrina. Can you remember the the name first levy that broke? Or maybe the name of the mayor that caused controversy with his statements? What were they?

All I'm saying is that this is a smaller issue stemming from a huge one. I also noticed you posted in the TSA thread -- that's just another issue stemming from 9/11. They started making people take off their shoes to go through the metal detectives in the 1980s, I believe. And people were freakin' out like no one's business when that happened. Do you think twice when they ask you to take off your shoes to go through security?

In ten years time, there may be an Islamic Center near a 9/11 memorial. And people who walk past it probably won't think twice anymore, because it'll be just another part of the NYC landscape.

EyesForLiars:

I think they should understand that Americans would feel disrespected because of this. Especially the people who lost people in Semptember 11. Of course, this is a free country as well. And not allowing them build the Mosque is like racism against them. It would be easier if they would just respect our veiws and put it somewhere else. We're not saying they can't build it, just not there.
It's disrespecting the people who died that day.

How do you know what "America" will feel? The Muslims proposing to build this are American. Islamic activists are American. There is no "our" view on this situation, and using some imagined community tactic personifying to justify discrimination is perhaps the most unamerican thing you could do.

"In order to be a good Muslim, you have to be a good Jew and a good Christian." - Sharif El-Gamel, developer of the Park51 community center.