Suicide

Why doesn't it extend to suicide?

And when you say "emotional problems" do you mean like teen angst? o.o
I believe that each person has their own limits; some people survive through terrible things, abuse, rape, loss .. others break. It's not about the circumstance, it's about the person.

A suicidal person who refrains from killing themselves because they know how much it would hurt others ... That means they're not only living the agony they were living before, they're also living with massive, massive guilt. And would die with massive, massive guilt.

Why can't people just be left to peace. Death is an inevitability. People should accept that. Grieving, yes, it's healthy, it's normal, but it's selfish.

I'd be more upset if a person who loved life was unfailry taken from me.

It doesn't extend to suicide because to be a good person, you have to have love for everyone. Of course, that's to varying extents. Brotherly love for your family, friendly love for your friends, and distant stranger love for people you don't know, that will stop you from stealing their shoes or smashing their windows. And if you have love for everyone, you'll stay alive just to keep them happy.

teen angst is included in all the other emotional problems you listed. again, I go back to "he will not tempt you above that which you are able" and also "all things work together for good (eventually)" therefore, suicide should never be necessary.

they'll get over their agony. Time heals all wounds. The people who love them want and will be there to help them if they're allowed. And they wouldn't be having any guilt until they actually DID something. Cause...you can't have guilt until you do something that makes you feel guilty right?

Trying to convince someone to stay alive is always a good thing. Death is an eventual inevitability, that doesn't mean you can't live out your life and maybe change others for good, maybe save someone's life someday.

You can have guilt about your thoughts. And shame.

He is a God that not everyone follows.

I mentioned teen angst merely as it sounded like you were putting 'emotional problems' down as something .. insignificant, perhaps.

Does time heal all wounds, when memories can stay with you forever?

And some people, all they have is that "stranger love". The love of no-one who knows them. Sure, people might seem to care if you called up a hotline to talk.

Staying alive just to keep others happy ..
My grandmother tried to do that. For weeks she suffered in a hospital bed because she wanted to spare her children the pain of her dying. She suffered. For weeks. And for nothing, because the cancer took her eventually.
Same thing happened when my grandpa was dying.

You know what? My mum, and all ther brothers and sisters, would have preferred it if they'd just let go. It would've meant countless less shots, agonising nights, drugged up days, tears of disorientation. Wouldn't it hurt you if someone was suffering and wanted to end things? Sure, you can say the situations are different - the mental, rather than the physical. But in the end I believe it is the person's choice.

I mean, it's their life. What, on all Earth, should be more their choice than their life?

I realise that not everyone believes in the same God I do, but since I'm stating my beliefs, I'm going to use him in my debates.

If people have absolutely no one to love them, then I don't mind if they kill themselves. That's one of the times when I'd condone it.

Okay, your grandmother, that's one of those complex situations. No one knows how things may have turned out if your grandmother had killed herself. Maybe things would've been alright, or maybe everything would've fallen apart. And maybe she wanted to live. Do you know that she didn't? Maybe she was partially living for...I don't know, a TV show she loved, or...well I don't know. Something.

On Earth. That's the point. According to my religion, my life belongs to God, and it should be his to take, when he chooses, because he wants me to do something for others, even if it's just helping one person on Earth. And that would be the only reason why I mostly do not condone suicide.

Well, good for you.
The less religious of us aren't so lucky to have such faith.

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Well, good for you.
The less religious of us aren't so lucky to have such faith.

You could if you wanted to. But since everyone has a choice, and no one has the right to push their choice on others, I say no more.

Do you really believe that if people had the choice between believing in God -
someone to blame,
someone to talk to when they feel alone,
someone who loves them always,
someone who promises them so much,
someone who's 'in charge' of things,
thus reducing the individual's responsibilty..
a kind god, a merciful god, an all knowing god,
you think if people had the choice the would choose not to believe?

Come on, religion is cushioning a person from life, and death.

I have tried believing, and I have failed. I have faith in something, I think I have some faith in the Universe, and people, but I do not have faith in any institution of today, and I have lost faith in a great deal of people because of religion. It causes war, and it causes fighting, and arguments, and dissent. It messes up politics, even in countries with a supposed separation of Church and State. It permeates logic, introducing anything but. Such is its nature. The nature of belief, that it cannot be explained with logic.

I am just outlining some reasons for my distaste of religion. Belief and faith, without the institution, I take no issue to, but people try to control. And so we have statements like those of the recent Pope.

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you think if people had the choice the would choose not to believe?

Yes. Because humans, above all, want total and utter control over their lives. And believing in God means that you do not have control. Besides, some (bad) people would rather ignore having to face God and possibly Hell after living a life full of sin.

You could start your own religion. Of course, it might not be the right one, but life might be funner. Religious war is, I believe, a terrible error on the part of people. Religion should never start wars, and if they do, then it's good religion made bad by people. We could do with a little religion in politics, or at least a better sense of right and wrong.
And people controlling other people, especially through religion, really, really sucks. There's another case of good religion made bad.

I thought believing in God means you have the whole "Free Will" thing happening. That everything you do is choice, accepting Him, rejecting Him.

If religion is just somethign you can start, how is it holy? I believe in philosophy and ethics. I can start my own philosophy. And for me, everything will be right. It's just about living your life. No restraints but those you make.

I think religion in politics is a terrible idea .. I mean, that's so dangerous. Could you imagine? It would cause much more global problems. Because then Government decisions become officially motivated by religious reasons. There would be far more violence. If you were not of whatever religion was in power, you were now a political criminal. Because politics are in play now. So the religious beliefs are law. Gosh, they separated church and state in most of the advanced countries for a reason.

No religion is good on its own, it's what people do with it, right? I mean, owning a Bible doesn't make you a good person. It doesn't make you a better person than a guy with no Bible.

Yes you still have a choice, but at the same time you remember that eventually, you'll have to face God, who will possibly be very, very disappointed and saddened by you.

Every religion was just started. One guy, saying something, and telling someone else about it. That's all religion is.

Well it depends on what religion. Maybe a religion that states that world peace is necessary, or the universe will implode would be a good one to start with. And it's the advanced countries that have the highest rate of unprovoked crime.

Well yeah, you have to believe the religion, and follow it too, otherwise it won't work. But sometimes people mis-read what religious leaders have said, and sometimes the leaders themselves are corrupt. That's why religion doesn't seem to be working very well.

ABCs you are a very intelligent person and these debates were great.

Thank you, I would say the same of you.

I've been diagnosed with something called Chronic Suicidal Ideation. I've made suicide attempts and been very close to being dead. I think some people think suicide isn't a psychological thing and that the person is being stupid. And that's definitley not true. I become like...a different person when i'm suicidal. It's almost like an addiction where having just one day without a thought is a huge accomplishment. I can't control when these thoughts come...they come everyday and a lot of the time start racing in my head. And when something is being said to you over and over, you get convinced, especially when you're mentally ill. But right now, i'm pretty good. I don't listen to when I hear it but I can't help but sometimes be like "maybe I should"

Being depressed is normal. I used to feel suicidal but.. like they said, it's selfish and it's not an answer to anything, it will only leave lots of problems. In suicide, you don't end problems, you just made another problem and what you end is your life. That's it. So, I don't think suicide is an answer

Being depressed isn't normal.
Being down is normal.
If you feel down sometimes, that's normal.

All the people turning 'down' into 'depression' are exacerbating the problem that depression causes to society already.

If you really suffer depression, you can get mental, or chemical, help. Therapy, or meds. Those just being two options. But it isn't something people are just supposed to be normally going through.

I think it's healthy to discuss and think about suicide, in philosophic terms; the implications of it. But ultimately a person should be able to reject the idea.
Sometimes maybe their circumstances do seem to justify it - overwhelmingly, for them - but for most people, things will change, things will improve.

"This too will pass."

It seems better to hang in there, and see what comes.

I tried to commit suicide. I tried to drown myself (nobody really knows) but I stopped myself and now I don't want to do it anymore because I want to grow up and fall in love again and get married.

I've also sworn to myself never to cut again and it just gives me the greatest feeling being able to have a bit of self control these days. I'm tempted to try again but I alaways try and think of my family and my dream of getting married and it keeps me going.

we_all_go_to_hell:

I tried to commit suicide. I tried to drown myself (nobody really knows) but I stopped myself and now I don't want to do it anymore because I want to grow up and fall in love again and get married.

I've also sworn to myself never to cut again and it just gives me the greatest feeling being able to have a bit of self control these days. I'm tempted to try again but I alaways try and think of my family and my dream of getting married and it keeps me going.

wow.. I really think you're brave. This made me understand more that.. suicide isn't the answer.. I idolize you..

guiltfeeder:

we_all_go_to_hell:

I tried to commit suicide. I tried to drown myself (nobody really knows) but I stopped myself and now I don't want to do it anymore because I want to grow up and fall in love again and get married.

I've also sworn to myself never to cut again and it just gives me the greatest feeling being able to have a bit of self control these days. I'm tempted to try again but I alaways try and think of my family and my dream of getting married and it keeps me going.

wow.. I really think you're brave. This made me understand more that.. suicide isn't the answer.. I idolize you..

thank you. It means a lot that other people understand me and that my decision encourages others :mrgreen:
x

Suicide is a hard one.
My Dad's friend commited suicide because he didn't want to turn out like his father (a peodofile).
I suppose in a way it's selfish, if you have someone, like a loved one to find you. They have to live with the fact that their son/daughter/wife/cousin/aunt/brother/sister or who ever, hated their life THAT much that they thought that the only way out was to kill themselves. I think it's quite brave to try and do so, I mean you don't know what's going to happen.

But I do sometimes think that it's pointless. People see it as the fastest way out, and it shouldn't be like that.

This is a hard topic.

Mouthwash:

Suicide is a hard one.
My Dad's friend commited suicide because he didn't want to turn out like his father (a peodofile).
I suppose in a way it's selfish, if you have someone, like a loved one to find you. They have to live with the fact that their son/daughter/wife/cousin/aunt/brother/sister or who ever, hated their life THAT much that they thought that the only way out was to kill themselves. I think it's quite brave to try and do so, I mean you don't know what's going to happen.

But I do sometimes think that it's pointless. People see it as the fastest way out, and it shouldn't be like that.

This is a hard topic.

but the person left behind is also being selfish in way. They're upset because they lost someone but the person who killed themselves left behind everyone everything they had.