Suicide

I think suicide isn't always selfish. What if your family was in trouble because of you or something? What if you were forced to kill yourself for something you believed in. Those aren't selfish reasons.
I think suicidal thoughts are a problem, and they are real. Someone's chemicals may be so imbalanced, they don't know which way's up.

Okay... well, after reading through this forum, (which is something.. been a while sicne I've done that) I have alot to say. Hope you guys don't mind me ranting, but I'm ranting, none-the-less.
My thoughts on suide - It is NOT always selfish. Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of the people commiting suicide? Some of the peoples problems... they're awful. I understand their reasons for suicides. But, not like I'm going to sit there and tell them to - I always try to help you get over your problems.
I have alot of suicidal friends. I atract them somehow. I guess it's just my good nature. Not saying I'm the best person in the world - heck, I'm not even saying I'm a good person. I'm jsut saying - I hae expierence with it. So I hope you guys fon't mind me talking.
Some of the reasons - god, they're horrible. I really do udnerstand why people do it. When your life feels like nothing, when you're coming hoome every day jsut to be beaten, when you have no friends. Or you jsut have "shadow" friends. Friends that stay in the good times, or when THEY'RE having problems, but when you start talking about yours, they dissapear. Or when, litterely, nobody would care if you died.. yes, I can see why. Tere's a bigger list, but I might as well keep it short.
Now do I think it's right? Soemtimes. Depends on your situation. Do I think it's nessicary? Again - could depend on your situation. But then - why don't you seek out help? Okay, and back to the selfish part - why do you think its so selfish? Their life. "I have the right to self-destruct". One of my favorite quotes, but not such a good meaning... anwho. So you think it's better for them to suffer, jsut becuase it would hurt their love ones? I think their love ones can, and will, get over it. I think they would probably understand - if they where nice enough to even listen to the person that is.
And perscition drugs - are NOT the answer. Yes, it IS acheimcal imbalnce, depression, but if you CAUSED the imbalence, then you should be able to FIX the imbalnce. Drugs just help the side affect. They counter-act the chemicals you're putting out. You should be able to learn how to STOP putting out the chemecals -not just canceling them.
Counselers can help. But really, I think it's sometimes better to conifde with a love one... but to each his own.
And - just becuase I wanted to - I was going to comment on that religous subject. So, yes, you were talking about your god, but not everybody believes in your god, so you really can't go off of that - well, yeah you can, if you're jsut voicing your opinion. But really - the guy was right, do you really think its right for the person to suffer in bed? Just becuase "Its what god wants"? Do YOU knwo what god wants? Maybe he really does want you to. What do you know?
But yeah - I think I might jsut be ranting on that subject becuase christainity really gets me mad sometimes.
Errr.. well, right now, I'm drawing a blank, I was going to say more, but I forgot... oh well. Please message me if you would like to talk aoubt anything. Or jsut reply on the forum... lol, that works too.
But yeah - hope all you guys don't mind my mindless babbling. I jsut wanted to get that out.

It's always good to hear people's thoughts. That's what the discussion boards are for, discussion.

Some matters of contention though ...

Firstly, you said you think it's right "depending on your situation". To a considerable extent, I believe that 'your situation' is such a relative term - what an individual can or cannot go through will be so different - that the statement isn't right. I believe that suicide is always down to choice. I believe in counseling, yes, any help the person could get. Some form of conflict resolution for their life, trying to fix their problems. But if they feel they can't, or they just won't, maybe that is a senseless [to us] loss of life. But it's their life. And I'm not saying that the death of a loved one won't impact the community, or family; because that would be awful and untrue. However cruel as it sounds to those who are left, it was their choice. And they aren't going through whatever they couldn't deal with, now. [/philosophethics]
My outward opinion? Suicide is bullshit; you have so much to live for.
And I will often stand by that, because if I can help someone out of that, help them on any level to start enjoying things again, to care about themselves .. That's what I want to do with my life, help people.
[Which can be difficult if a part of you is yelling, "Hypocrite!! Why don't you let them die!"]

Secondly, the imbalance in our brain of chemicals. We may suffer pain or trauma which can make us depressed; it's also, to an extent, hereditary - women are more likely to develop it, while children of those who suffer depression have increased chances of developing it. You can be susceptible to depression, it's not as simple as 'You caused the imbalance'. Also, while taking anti-depressants, you should be receiving therapy of some sort. I haven't heard of anyone I know being prescribed medicine, and then being left alone for the problem to solve itself. Maybe it works differently elsewhere .. -_-'
I'd like to point out that while I go stereotypical emo on occasion, I don't believe I suffer from 'depression' [unlike the majority of my peers, it seems]; although, I was informed I had more than a 25% higher risk of it because of certain things, including gender, and my mother's history.
Moving along. I think if it stops you breaking down crying every day, if you can function, then prescription medication is worth it. It shouldn't be a solution, but then, if you feel that you're feeling better every day, I suppose it may start to solve part of the problem.

I agree with the question of, "How can you know what God wants?"
So I tend to just ask, "What do others want? What do you want?"
And try to achieve those two things. That's my idea of being a good person - living for others, and living for myself.
I mean, call that wrong.

Can I just make a point that the situation really shouldn't make too much of a difference. it doesn't matter how serious the situation. Someone could be suicidal after being bullied regularly at school and another could have lost their entire family in a fire. It doesn't matter. The point is it's making them feel like they don't want to live.
So can people not say 'look at their situation' because it doesn't matter how serious it is to us.

Yes, I'd hoped I'd made that point at some point .. :]

I jsut don't like the pills because most people don't even know what they're putting into their body. It's sad how much the drug industry fuels the medical industry.
Yeah, I can see if you yourself think if its making you feel bad, why you would think you should keep taking it - but you still don't really know what phyusical side-effects you could have. They really don't inform you enough about the eddects it has.

Another reason why I don't like the pills, is because alot of my friends are just put on it, and don't get any help. It pisses me off. Their parents take them in because their kid isn't acting right, they don't even ask the kid, then they have to fill out a questionare, then all they get is a pill that's supposed to make you "happy". All I ever here from them is, "Well.. .I guess my parents think I'm crazy now..." and it gets them even more depressed!! But yeah... that's just my situation....

Well, yeah, I can see why you can't say, "well, look at their situation," because of that, but I just don't like how you say its selfish that they killed themselves. I mean. really, it is there life.... is it really up to you to tell them they're being selfish because they want to commit suicide? Instead of saying that, why don't you try to talk to them about WHY they want to? It usually helps alot more...

I'm not trying to say I'm pro-suicide.... because I'm not. Well, I guess one reason that I'm okay with it too, is that I believe in carnation... but, once again, that's just me... I would nver tell a person to commit suicide. I just think that we telling people that they're being retarded and crazy is really NOT the best tactic to help them....

I am not pro-suicide like people are pro-ana ... But I'm always pro-choice, if it doesn't harm others. And I don't beileve anyone has said recently that suicide is selfish - a bit back, perhaps, but my point was that there's no denying that your family and friends will be hurt, that your school will be shocked, and so I think if you are suicidal, you have to consider [amongst the other things I mentioned] other people - if your pain or suffering or whatever warrants that, then you've at least made a decision that wasn't based on a short-lived impulse. Erm, insert some joke of dubious humour about the term 'short-lived' here -_-'
I get your point about the pills, though, if you're coerced into taking them, ordered, or something, it probably isn't going to help you feel better. But if you get therapy, and they talk to you about it, I think people should understand that they have a chemical imbalance, and at least try the medication. Again, I think it should be their choice.

And yes, the drug industry fuels the medical industry, but over-prescribing to young people isn't the only problem here; most of these things are narcotic, addictive, etc, right? So there's a lot of people who are using them for those reasons.

Yeah, that's true, and it's really sad that they do abuse it....
Yeah, I gues that's true, it was way further back. Lol, I had jsut read this last night, though, you have to understand. Yeah, I like that, that you're pro-choice. Yes, I do relize that it would hurt people... I don't know how I'm trying to put this.. like... hm, a scenario seems best way to put it.
So yeah, there's thisg girl that I know that is really suicidal, but I love her to death. She won't talk to me now, but there's nothing I can do about that, I'm trying.. anywho.
Though I love her, if she commited suicide, I would show up at the funeral, I would greave, horibly, but I wouldn't dwell on it... I know it's what she would've wanted. To die, I mean. Plus the fact that I believe in re-incarnation, like I mentioned earlier... which is a WHOLE different matter.
But anyway - my point is (if I have a point.. which I hope I do) that even though it would hurt us, persay, you got to realize its probably what that person wanted. But yeah... anwho...
Yes, they should be informed more, but the media are butt-heads about that.... and yes ,theripy will help.
Uh... I hope you don't mind my spelling mistakes, sorry, I don't notice, and I type fast... I jsut noticed all of them...sorry.

lol. One time I was going to quote your entire post [before I realised that 1) no-one else had posted, so they'd have been consecutive anyways, and 2) it made my post look really big.] and I went through fixing all the typos, cause I can get a bit OCD .. *giggles* Sorry. It's totally ok. Back on topic - I believe the same thing, that was really well put: that we shouldn't mourn those who die happy. If you've had a long life, or a shorter, fuller life, if you acheived something with your death, if you'd completed your goals, if you chose that end; then you shouldn't mourn the person.
Of course, I don't think being selfish is all that big a deal, so I would let myself be quite sad if my friend killed themselves.

._.

Well, yeah, me too.... I have a problem with helping out about a dozon people at once... I think if one of them acutally did kill themselves, I would take it on my shoulders that I wasn't able to help them enough.... not good for me, but...

Hmm... I wouldn't so much say that she would die happy, but I LOVE what you put. She would be happy that she succeeded at doing something right (uh... I mean actually a succesful suicide...) she's okay with this world but... yeah, okay, I have weird friends.

But yeah... uh, if you noticed, I like suing the word "Yeah"... lol, sorry. And I'll try to work on my spelling mistakes when I type in the future... lol, one of my friends has OCD, she gets so mad at me when I make typos in IMing. We'll be having a serious life-or-death conversation, and before shea answers me, she corrects all my typing errors... lol.

I just heard that William Hung commited suicide.
Apparently, people were making fun of him after he appeared on American Idol and he took alot of verbal and emotional abuse.
Poor guy.
He shot himself and left a suicide note saying "Goodbye Cruel World".
Now I find this extreamly sad.
When mean,selfish,rude people drive someone with low self esteem in the first place, to kill themselves.

In my opinion, there is usualy always someone doing or saying something driving you to do something so awful.
I hope I never have to experience such an awful thing in my life.

Suicide is justified. My point is justified by many aspects and peculiar instances. For one, there was this great Indian man who lived in DC. He used to own a resturant, an airline company, and a company where actors/actresses were on tour. Well as you can guess, he had big big bucks. But one day, his wife ran away from him because of abuse. A couple months later, he jumped off a bridge and ended his life. Suicide is not selfish in anyway, because it's kind of a once locked door slowly opening. I've had MANY suicidal thoughts. It sort of gave me comfort strangely. And when people find themselves stuck in every path, there's that one door they didn't acknoweldge much. It's suicide. I mean if you're depressed, or you just lost your wife/kids/buisness
depression floods in and takes over your body. Suicide is mostly caused by depression ,even though escape from enviction and rape is one cause also. So in total, suicide is justified.

Uh... okay?? Uh.. feel like saying "death is inevitable" right here. But how does that justify it? Just wondering your point... it confused me so!!!!

So are yo usaying tis okay if you lost somebody? I don't see how that makes it right... or maybe I'm not getting the right poinr. Help?? Explain, please!!

I think any amount of suffering can justify suicide.

Some people can't deal with being raped / abused.
Some people can't deal with their parents fighting / splitting up
Some people can't deal with bullying
Some people just can't deal with the idea of life. *cough*

I don't think anyone has the right to decide what is and what isn't "justification" for suicide.

OH!! Okay. That helped alot. I see what you mean now. Yes, I agree with that.

=] Indeed

Psychiatric help NEEDS to improve. I was in the psych ward 3 times for chronic suicidal ideation and depression. The psych ward was absolutely disgusting. Kids who simply had arguments with their parents and their parents couldn't "take it" were put there. They would be put on meds but most of the time, they refused(so did their parents) so what did they do? Strap you down, stick a needle in your arm and lock you in a padded room that had little ventilation (I didn't get to have this happen to me luckily but I witnessed it many times) One kid was banging on the padded rooms' door for help because it was hot and too stuffy, they didn't care.. So the kid made him self puke so the staff would pay attention.If you were gay or bi, they would not let you talk to, sit next to or even look at the same sex. If you did, padded room. I am gay, but never said because of that. But the staff decided they thought I was and harassed me about it. Asking everyday "you gay?" then telling me their pathetic theory on why I was gay. Like "because girls can't bring boys to their house to have sex with, so they bring girls so they become gay" In fear, I had to sit through it and say nothing. Or else, in the padded room i'd go. Plus, the padded room wasn't sound proof so all night and day, you'd hear screams and bangs on the door. I was on psych meds for a couple years. We tried 54908540934908 different meds until we stopped at one. I just got worse so recently I decided to get off them. Every doctor refused to see me for that decision so no doctor would supervise me as I slowly came off the meds. So I had to do it by myself. I ended up sick. But finally am off all but one medicine for sleep. I was put in the psych ward, on meds, in therapy etc for depression, anxiety, bulimia, chronic suicidal ideation, instead, I was left with more anxiety about hospitals and traumatic memories. It's hard to help stop suicidal thoughts when you are the only one that has to help you.

PARROT Vox.:

Psychiatric help NEEDS to improve. I was in the psych ward 3 times for chronic suicidal ideation and depression. The psych ward was absolutely disgusting. Kids who simply had arguments with their parents and their parents couldn't "take it" were put there. They would be put on meds but most of the time, they refused(so did their parents) so what did they do? Strap you down, stick a needle in your arm and lock you in a padded room that had little ventilation (I didn't get to have this happen to me luckily but I witnessed it many times) One kid was banging on the padded rooms' door for help because it was hot and too stuffy, they didn't care.. So the kid made him self puke so the staff would pay attention.If you were gay or bi, they would not let you talk to, sit next to or even look at the same sex. If you did, padded room. I am gay, but never said because of that. But the staff decided they thought I was and harassed me about it. Asking everyday "you gay?" then telling me their pathetic theory on why I was gay. Like "because girls can't bring boys to their house to have sex with, so they bring girls so they become gay" In fear, I had to sit through it and say nothing. Or else, in the padded room i'd go. Plus, the padded room wasn't sound proof so all night and day, you'd hear screams and bangs on the door. I was on psych meds for a couple years. We tried 54908540934908 different meds until we stopped at one. I just got worse so recently I decided to get off them. Every doctor refused to see me for that decision so no doctor would supervise me as I slowly came off the meds. So I had to do it by myself. I ended up sick. But finally am off all but one medicine for sleep. I was put in the psych ward, on meds, in therapy etc for depression, anxiety, bulimia, chronic suicidal ideation, instead, I was left with more anxiety about hospitals and traumatic memories. It's hard to help stop suicidal thoughts when you are the only one that has to help you.

oh my god. that's awful (about the psych ward).

^ Yeah. Jeez. I mean, that's just disgusting.

lucifer's_chester:

I think any amount of suffering can justify suicide.

Some people can't deal with being raped / abused.
Some people can't deal with their parents fighting / splitting up
Some people can't deal with bullying
Some people just can't deal with the idea of life. *cough*

I don't think anyone has the right to decide what is and what isn't "justification" for suicide.

But there will always be people who want to help you - you only have one chance at life.