Abortion

Ladypurdy:

If you're out having sex with any random guy just for the fun of it then um not sorry you need to take care of your kid.

Why? And, in the event that a parent(s) is(/are) not financially ready to raise a child, why is it okay for that child to be given a substandard life just because people see abortion as some sort of punishment for sleeping around?

@ Alex; periphery.
Look I said my piece and that's it.

@ Ladypurdy
You posted on a public forum, which is open for discussion, so he was simply asking you for clarification on why you believe that, which is the same thing I'd like to know.

@ Ladypurdy
Not all people who get pregnant have sex with some random guy, get raped, or will have a fetus with medical problems. I'm on birth control and have been with my boyfriend for three years, but that doesn't mean that I should be forced to have a child against my will. It also doesn't make me some whore deserving of punishment.

My biggest question with abortion is actually not whether or not abortion should or should not be legal. Mine is about aftermath.

So let's say that somehow abortion becomes illegal. It's an unlikely turn of events, but let's travel into the word of hypothetical scenarios. In this fictional world, what do you want to do now? How do you force every single woman that gets pregnant ever to go through with the pregnancy? How would you enforce that? I mean, would you put women in jail or even prison to enforce this? Would there ever be exceptions to the ban on abortion?

Hell, how would we even monitor that? I mean, let's be real here, miscarriages happen in the world. Are we going to drug test and do invasive testing to every woman that claims she had a miscarriage to make sure she didn't cause it herself just to end her pregnancy?

My point is that it's all well and good to be against abortion. The fact of the matter is that no one on either side likes abortion, but pro-choice people believe it should be an option to consider. So, pro-lifers, what is the end goal and how should the end goal be managed?

@ dru is beautiful.I guess you're right but it is kind of unfortunate for the dad.

@ Ayana Sioux
Yes. It would be more unfortunate to not allow her the choice of what to do with her body. Most women who get abortions are unmarried. 83%

I am pro choice. I do think there should be limitations, however- for example, I think that if a woman wants to have an abortion, she should be required to have it done within the first trimester. (Exceptions can be made in the case of rape, baby's father's death, etc. after careful examination from a psychiatrist)

My opinion is this because I think that every woman should be able to make her own decisions about her body. Would I personally get an abortion? Probably not, but if a woman deems herself unfit to carry and raise a child, then by all means I think she should have a right to abort the baby with no questioning.

Now's the part where the argument of adoption comes in. Do I think it's a great alternative? Absolutely, and if you can obtain a set of parents who want the baby immediately, by all means, opt for adoption, however I certainly would rather have a baby die before it can process what's going on than withstand the emotional trauma of going from foster home to foster home where it will have to fight for attention, possibly be abused and any other number of things, or be sent to an orphanage where the child will be one of many and not get the dedicated love and affection needed.

Just my two cents.

@ the wonder years
Why do you think the current US laws are not limiting enough? Currently states allow abortions up to 24 weeks, a full 12 weeks longer than you think should be legal. Considering some women don't know or have the money immediately, I think restricting the law more is just another way to force women to have babies they don't want (and punish then for being poor).

On the topic of whether or not to change the laws that allow women to have an abortion up to 24 weeks. 89% of abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Only about 1.2% of abortions are performed past 21 weeks. Studies also show that a human fetus doesn't feel pain before 24 weeks. So there is no point in changing the law because the fetus does not suffer, it would only stop a small amount of abortions anyway and would be unfair to the women who can't get the money right away or who find out later on that they're pregnant.

Sources: British health experts study & When women have abortions graph.

What it really comes down to is not telling other people what they are allowed to do with their own bodies.

I’ll go first. Personally, I am against it. No matter how you put it or think of it, you are killing a life. And I know circumstances arise (like rape or abuse) but that baby is 50% yours too. And the majority of people who do have an abortion often regret it and become depressed. Why put yourself through that? If you don’t want to raise the child, let someone else who wants too. Give it to foster care or personally meet parents who would love a child. Give your baby a chance to live.

@ January Rose
Majority of those who get pregnant don't regret it and/or feel depressed. Those who have abortions can experience a large variety of emotions (here), which also says that mental health beforehand is a big indicator of mental health afterwards, along with the fact that the stigma surrounding abortion is more likely to cause negative emotions than the abortion itself. Also, adoption is an alternative to parenting, not pregnancy. Not everyone can or wants to be pregnant. Also, those people that want to adopt can easily go adopt a child that is already born and living within the system, because statistically, any child that isn't white, healthy (also not disabled), and typically male are more likely to be adopted than other genders, races, etc. Along with the fact that the longer a child is in the system means the less likely it is to be adopted. So if someone really wants to love a child and is capable of loving a child, then they are able to go adopt one that is already in the system and give them a better life that forcing people who don't want to be pregnant into basically being vessels just so they can have a newborn as opposed to another child. Also, a fetus is not sentient. The pregnant person is. The pregnant person is a living, breathing, sentient, feeling human being. A fetus has human DNA, but it is not a person/human being. By taking away the pregnant person's rights, you are giving the fetus not only more rights than an actual sentient being, but you're then making sure that pregnant person has less rights than a dead body (consent is still needed in order to perform certain things on a dead body, so a pregnant person should therefore be allowed to consent to what uses their body too). Again, this gives something that isn't considered a person under US law (I'm in the US but I'm sure laws are similar in other westernized countries possibly) more rights than an actual citizen/person of the country. Not to also mention, making abortion illegal won't stop abortion. It only stops safe abortions. It then forces pregnant people into back alley abortions, which then can kill an actual sentient being as opposed to just a fetus. Also for more information and sources for you (which are unbiased, so there is no need to claim the Guttmacher institute is biased), here, here, here, here, here, and here they are. You can personally believe that you'll never have an abortion because it might not ever be the right decision for you, and that is okay, but to try and limit the rights of those who are able to get pregnant and possibly put their lives in danger by forcing them to then go have back alley abortions is not.

Abortion kills a potential life. 80% of women who terminate their pregnancy don't regret their decision and the most common feeling experienced afterwards is relief. On a similar note, the American Psychological Association nor the American Psychiatric Association recognize "Post-Abortion Syndrome" as a real phenomenon, and reject its existence. Furthermore, putting your child up for adoption is more emotionally traumatic than having an abortion.

Sources: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4

@ January Rose
My mother was molested by her adoptive father and my best friend in high school was abused by three foster families. Adoption isn't perfect. Especially if you don't have a perfect baby.

Why do you feel the mother's life is immaterial?

The majority of women who have abortions already have a child. How do you propose they tell the child they already have that they don't I've their sibling enough to keep them? Not to mention, even though it's illegal, she could lose her job. Oh, and people will harshly judge her for the very public adoption choice. Women who don't want to be pregnant also don't take as good of care of the fetus.

@ dru is beautiful.
I never said that adoption was perfect. I'm sorry that both your mom and your best friend were absued by their parents. But just because they were doesn't mean every child who is adopted gets abused. I'm adopted and quite a few people I know are, and none of them have ever been absued. And if my biological parents had decided to keep me, I would be dead before my first birthday. They didn't have the money or the means to support me.

And I don't feel like the mother's life is immaterial. I feel like if you get pregnat and don't want the child, you should at least give it a chance to have a life. I don't believe that anyone on this earth has the right to take away another person's life. And that is pretty much what you are doing when you have an abortion.

@ January Rose
But you'd rather take away a living, breathing, sentient, feeling human being's rights to their body away? Makes total sense.

@ January Rose
A fetus does not fit the definition of person. The mother does. She has rights. A fetus does not. And it should not because women are more than human incubators.

@ independence.
But it is not about just them anymore. They are growing another person inside of their body. All the baby has is it mom and if the mom decides to kill it, it has no say, no choice, no nothing. Does that seem fair to you?

@ dru is beautiful.
But the fetus should. It deserves to have a life just as much as anyone else. If every mother in the whole history of the world who didn't want their baby had an abortion, there would be a lot less people on this earth. People we probably know, see, talk to, like. They wouldn't exist.

@ January Rose
The world is overpopulated. People who don't exist don't feel regret at not existing. Women who are forced to be human incubators do feel. I stand with them because they have the right to make medical decisions about their bodies. No woman should be forced to be a human incubator.

Every child born should be wanted, not simply conceived and shoved into the system. It would be better for all babies of they were all born wanted and nt merely an obligation to punish a woman.

Your opinions seem to be very hypothetical and do not address the actual specific cases of individual women.