Abortion

@ CallusedSilkr
Don't worry about sounding rude I'm sure I quite frequently sound that way. I brought up birth defects defects because you brought up a rape victim. If you're going to shift from the norm why not bring them all to the fore. as to you referring to a life as a cluster of cells...so isn't any other part of your body. Aren't you a cluster of cells? Could you do me a favor and listen to yourself for a second. Your making it sound like having a child is a burden. A burden on the woman, a burden on the foster care system. You claim to be discussing "facts about reality". Is the fact that sex can lead to pregnancy NOT a reality? What world do you live in? Oh that's right you live in the modern world, a world where sex only leads to a cluster of cells to be sucked out by a vacuum.

@ amybh33
Actually, you brought up rape, and even if I had brought up rape, rape and birth defects aren't synonymous, so your randomly bringing up birth defects still makes no sense. A blastocyst is literally a cluster of cells. So, no, I'm not a cluster of cells actually. I'm millions of clusters of clusters of cells that is a sentient being. I never said having a child is a burden. My point was that it's not as simple as just 'let's eliminate abortion and everything will be fine'. Sex can cause pregnancy, and I never said it didn't, so you can calm with your bullshit tone with me. I never said the kid was a burden on the foster care system, but you need to acknowledge that this situation is not simple. It's not simply a matter of, "Congratulations, we have the higher moral ground!" Because you don't. You decided to take just the life of yes, a cluster of non-sentient cells and put it over the rights of a fully sentient being. You also refuse to discuss what happens when that cluster of cells grows into a fully sentient being and then we have nowhere to put them.

Seriously though, answer my questions. Do you support gays adopting? Do you know how we would fix the foster system that's already overwhelmed by adding even more children into the mix? I mean, since you're so eager to condemn every single person in this thread for being somehow less than you because we see this debate differently than you do, then c'mon. I want to hear your grand plan for all people with uteruses.

Please keep all discussion respectful. Disagreement and debate is fine, condescension is not.

Just throwing this out... Morals are subjective, so no one has a real moral high ground on abortion, for pro-life and pro-choice, just who holds the better argument.

@ amybh33
A fetus is a burden to a woman who doesn't want it. That's why most women who get abortions report feelings of RELIEF. All children should be wanted children. If you don't want children to be burdens, don't force women to carry them to term.

More news from the crazy world. I also posted this in the feminism thread, but it's also highly relevant here.

I agree with this man's idea. I think his plans for this new law are interesting and good. Sure, it has a few flaws, but eh, so does everyplan. The article makes him seem like his plan is a terrible idea and it's going to make everything worse. Shouldn't articles be none-biased...?

@ January Rose
Ideally articles would be unbiased, but in this case it is a supremely bad idea. It's the woman's body and the woman's choice. It's also just offensive and ridiculous to once again bring up 'legitimate rape'.

@ CallusedSilk
Yes, but the article is supposed to provide facts about the situation, and that's it. Not the writer's opinion. I admit the "legitimate rape" was a little harsh, but abortion is a serious matter that really should be considered when faced with an unexpected pregnancy. It shouldn't be the first and only thing the woman considers.

@ January Rose
It's not just 'a little harsh'. It's offensive. No one is ever saying that abortion is the first and only thing a woman considers. That is in no way what that bill is about. The bill is about taking away a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body. That's it. Those are the facts.

@ January Rose
Forcing a woman to get permission to get an abortion from some dude isn't going to make her think longer and harder. Women already do think about this decision. The majority of women who abort already have one child and cannot care for another. They think about how the pregnancy would negatively affect their lives.

To imply a woman isn't thinking hard about this decision unless a man is involved in the process is incredibly offensive and misogynistic.

Not to mention it is the easiest fucking law in the world to get around. I could probably pay a guy $5 to sign the form and say he had sex with me.

@ CallusedSilk
But that woman is growing a life inside her. Doesn't it deserve a chance at life. If the woman can't afford to keep the baby, she should give it up for adoption. There are so many options there. Plus, maybe the man who got her pregnant will want the baby? I'm not saying the man should always have any say (especially if he knocked her up and left her) but still. You never know.

@ dru is beautiful.
I still believe the woman should really consider. She is ending a life, not giving that baby a chance. And yes, some may get around the law, but name a law someone hasn't got around.

@ January Rose
I'm not entirely sure how many times I have to state that it's her body, and as harsh as this sounds? No, I don't believe that the fetus, something that's essentially a parasite, deserves more rights than the woman. This bill, once again, is not about making it so that women don't have to think about their decision. This law is making it so that what that woman thinks doesn't matter.

@ January Rose
Men should not get to force women to carry pregnancies to term. It is abusive.

edit

@ January Rose
I don't usually post in controversial threads, but I do have to comment on this if you are agreeing with every statement made on that website.

You really have no idea how wildly offensive it is to say that abortion is worse than genocide and slavery. It's insanely demeaning to call abortion greater than the Holocaust and it leads me to believe whoever wrote that page actually has no concept of what constitutes as genocide and especially has no historical knowledge of what actually went on in concentration camps during the Holocaust. To say you agree with that is saying that you place more worth on a potential human than you do an already living, breathing one that is being tortured and dehumanised. Foetuses are not tortured. Abortions are not performed with the malicious intent to inflict knowing harm for fun. Foetuses also cannot be dehumanised, as they have no concept of humanness as they don't fit the criteria for identity, which states they must be independent of others and capable of making their own choices.

The fact that page then goes on to refer to abortion as a racist institution again demonstrates the writer's lack of knowledge of what racism is. If only X ethnicity foetuses were aborted, you could argue that as racism, but you can't say that abortion of all foetuses carried by women of any ethnic background is racism. Foetuses are not a race of people and therefore any prejudice anyone may have against foetuses cannot be labelled as racism. It doesn't fit the definition.

I'm not here to argue that you have no right being pro-life, but if you are pro-life for these reasons, then I think that's a bigger issue and a very concerning one. I would hope that you don't take genocide and racism as lightly as that website does.

@ bona drag.
I'm sorry for the confusion. I do not in any way think that major issues like genocide and slavery are worse than abortion. Those are serious matters. I would go into detail, but these topics are not for this thread. Also racism is an issue I don't like at all. And it is also a serious matter for another thread.
I have changed my opinion above, as I can now see how offensive it was to other topics.

@ January Rose
Some facts on that list are flat out lies for example, abortion is me much safer than childbirth. I can't take any list seriously that lies about data I get an emotional response. Anyone who would lie to get you to agree clearly doesn't have enough good reasons to convince you on their own convictions.

Honestly, I'd rather not go through an abortion, but it's the woman's body, thus her choice. Pro-choice is my standing.

The only thing I can conjure up for when it's not primarily the women's choice is when it wasn't rape or hurting the mother. If she doesn't want it but the male thinks he wants it, that can go into whole other topic. Because it takes two to create that formation going on and if no accidents, like a condom breaking or missed days for the pills, then I think the father has some say.